The Art of Gem Carving (Video)

[helens]

Wow... Deb you are wonderful!!

Quick question... why not use this epoxy mixture with the grit on rubber bits?? It sounds like adding that mixture would make the equivalent of NOVA bits (Diamond Pacific I think)?

Speaking of which, what is your opinion on NOVA bits? Thanks for all the info:)!

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

yes16 yes16 yes16

...said master Daniel  yes16 yes16 yes16

I'm surrounded by the big kids and I'm loving it!

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

Wow... Deb you are wonderful!!

Quick question... why not use this epoxy mixture with the grit on rubber bits?? It sounds like adding that mixture would make the equivalent of NOVA bits (Diamond Pacific I think)?

Speaking of which, what is your opinion on NOVA bits? Thanks for all the info:)!

I may very well be wrong Helen but I'm thinking the felt serves as a matrix anchor for the concoction (that's what got me all excited - seemed so obvious yet I never would have thought of it!) whereas it would only be a coating on rubber bits. Guess we'll find out!

[lonelygems]

yes16 yes16 yes16

...said master Daniel  yes16 yes16 yes16

I'm surrounded by the big kids and I'm loving it!

saved14....i'm reading all Debbie posted here and get dictionary in other tab, i also learn so much from her...... yippie24 She is real master..... hatsoff14

[helens]

Wow... Deb you are wonderful!!

Quick question... why not use this epoxy mixture with the grit on rubber bits?? It sounds like adding that mixture would make the equivalent of NOVA bits (Diamond Pacific I think)?

Speaking of which, what is your opinion on NOVA bits? Thanks for all the info:)!

I may very well be wrong Helen but I'm thinking the felt serves as a matrix anchor for the concoction (that's what got me all excited - seemed so obvious yet I never would have thought of it!) whereas it would only be a coating on rubber bits. Guess we'll find out!

Ooh. That makes sense Frank! The felt would 'grab' the mixture much better, AND save splattering! That's brilliant!!

On the coated felt, you use that wet right??

[Debbie K]

Yes, Frank. The felt absorbs the epoxy/diamond goop. I also tried putting it on worn-out dremel sanding drums, and it worked okay. I was trying to duplicate the effect of a diamond belt on an Expando drum, something with a little give.

Helen, you use them with a water drip. It gets a little messy; buy that plexiglass do-dad! Sadly, I've never tried the Nova bits, I don't have the money to try things if I'm not sure they're going to work. Some people at the club I go to have, and they like them. But they don't really carve, so I don't know how they'll work for us.

I still haven't gotten exactly the wheel I want; it seems to me that the stuff is wearing off a little too much. But they keep cutting/sanding, because the stuff has partially impregnating the felt. I didn't measure things the first time I made them and didn't put enough diamond in.

Frank: that recipe with the Hysol is for doing a 6-8" x 2" wide cloth belt, WAY too much for little bits. Adjust accordingly.

I didn't respond right away because I was carving, and I just discovered something interesting. I'm at a point where I'm trying to level out a background and was sanding with 600 grit diamond and needed a razor blade to get into a little area. I had a box of ancient (pre 1950) rusty scalpel blades and thought, what the heck. Incredibly, they actually are able to scrape California Nephrite jade. I don't have any idea what kind of steel they are, but they removed material as well as the tungsten carbide. I don't know if they still make scalpel blades out of really good steel like this anymore, but when I find my new ones, I'll give it a try.

Debbie

[helens]

How fascinating Debbie:). Would love to see a 'work in progress' if you have time to take some pix:)!

[Debbie K]

I forgot to mention these; the Marsh sander and gugasander. The Marsh sander is a totally unique sander in which the sandpaper is rolled up and put in a cylinder which is attached to an arbor. The sandpaper is actually able to bend and follow the contours of your carving. You can use them with a little water, or dry. The gugasander is tiny for little bitty areas and has to be used dry. The only place I know of that has them is The Old Texas Woodcarver. http://www.texaswoodcarvers.com/Tool_Catalog/Abrasives.htm#Soft Drum Sanders The Marsh sander is a dream when you get it to work right (sandpaper not flying out at you), and you can buy the cloth backed sandpaper that's wet/dry to use in it.

I had the benefit of learning to use Marsh sander under the tutelage of the inventor, Wanda Marsh. She carved the most amazing flowers out of wood, some of the best in the world. I think that store sells some of her books, she was an incredible award-winning carver.

Debbie

[helens]

Debbie, if you don't mind, I'm going to describe my understanding of how to carve something, and if you could, correct my method in terms of tools and technique for improvement?

This is how I did the one and only carving I have finished, a small opal 'seal'. And this was painful enough, as I ZINGED the piece across the room I don't know how many times:P. Thankfully, it was a TOUGH little welo and managed to stay intact:P. That said, under magnification it's still plenty lumpy, but I was satisfied because it was actually shiny in some spots!!! LOL!

1. rough shape the piece with a cheap diamond dremel bit wet (all done over a pan of water, dip, cut, dip, cut, no continuous overhead drip)

2. once shape is formed, start sanding with a felt tipped bob loaded with 220 grit mixed with olive oil (I think my grit is SiC). I also tried a rubber bob loaded with the same grits (this is the sprayer, but seems to work better than the bob)

3. change to 500 grit felt bob, run it all over the piece, then 1000, then 1500 same as #2

4. Zam polish until shiny.

I know the above method is completely flawed... but that's what I did.

Would you replace step 2, and the rest with your epoxy hardened bob?

How do you do final polish, assuming it was a stone like agate or jasper instead of something soft like opal?

Thanks a bunch:). The step by step helps me to visualize what I'm doing wrong or what I'm missing:).

[Debbie K]

Helen:

I mentioned in an earlier post that I cracked several opals using the diamond/felt wheels, even with the water. I use diamond bits up to 600 grit and then switch to wood, oil and diamond, starting with 600 and go to 3000 for the opals.

Did it work? That's the most important question. If it worked for you, keep doing it! But I wouldn't use those wheels I make on opal or clear quartz, too much risk of cracking. I also work on a few opals at a time and set them down when they start to get hot and pick up another.

I'm not reliable on opals, I haven't carved that many. I bet there's someone here who could give you much better information. I'll have to try the Zam, didn't think of it for the opal. The only diamond I have is loose grit (I have a lifetime supply, due to not understanding what I was ordering or how much it would cost) and don't know about the spray type. I know faceters use it, I just don't know anything about it. Sorry.

I use artistic license as an excuse of being truly lazy about my polishing. I know how to polish, I just hate to do it. Also, with faces, if they're too shiny you can't see any detail. That rhodonite piece was polished up to 1200 and it just didn't look good and I had to take it back to 600. If you go to my Picasa page in the pendant section, the only thing highly polished is the catfish. That jasper just sung the shinier it got. That's only to 3000. I love jasper, but nobody else seems to appreciate it very much. Jade is much more popular. I have a absolutely incredible piece of emerald green imperial jasper that's translucent that I'm terrified to carve. It didn't cost me that much, but I know I might not ever see such a good piece again.

There are scores of people here that are much better at polishing than I will ever be. I'm only semi-reliable at the carving end of things.

Debbie

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

Thanks Debbie!

I have a scale with 1/100g granularity - should work even though I don't think that's quite 1/100c (I forget the conversion).

Metal - you mentioned scalpels - how interesting. The first things I ever cut and polished were soft nodules I found in my yard (a landfill covered with rock from all over the rocky mountains). I had no idea what I was doing and no lapidary equipment. I noticed that some of the nodules were soft enough to carve with standard hobby machine files (hardened steel). I cut flat surfaces and then ran a flat file over them and got a reflective shine. From there I went to sanding then to diamond and on up.

I also like that you mentioned selective polishing. Seems a lot of people don't accept anything that's not water-wet. I like many things better when  they're matte or somewhere between.

[pete]

It's so easy to miss posts but I'm glad I've caught up again (at least for now) with this one.

There's some great tips here.
I have 600 through 50K nova wheels but they're not my preferred wheels. They're ok for broad soft strokes but not for detail. Having said that I'm still considering trying a 320. They can be run dry but it's not recommended but the 50K must have water because it seems softer than the others and heats very quickly.

Specially like the comment about proprietary information. I've also encountered brick wall, treat you like a nobody, protect the crown jewels at any cost. Foolishly those type of people don't realize how simple it is to figure out what their trying to protect.
Unfortunately there's a whole industry now based on selling only information much of it being simple common knowledge.

[helens]

Helen:

I mentioned in an earlier post that I cracked several opals using the diamond/felt wheels, even with the water. I use diamond bits up to 600 grit and then switch to wood, oil and diamond, starting with 600 and go to 3000 for the opals.

Did it work? That's the most important question. If it worked for you, keep doing it! But I wouldn't use those wheels I make on opal or clear quartz, too much risk of cracking. I also work on a few opals at a time and set them down when they start to get hot and pick up another.

I'm not reliable on opals, I haven't carved that many. I bet there's someone here who could give you much better information. I'll have to try the Zam, didn't think of it for the opal. The only diamond I have is loose grit (I have a lifetime supply, due to not understanding what I was ordering or how much it would cost) and don't know about the spray type. I know faceters use it, I just don't know anything about it. Sorry.

I use artistic license as an excuse of being truly lazy about my polishing. I know how to polish, I just hate to do it. Also, with faces, if they're too shiny you can't see any detail. That rhodonite piece was polished up to 1200 and it just didn't look good and I had to take it back to 600. If you go to my Picasa page in the pendant section, the only thing highly polished is the catfish. That jasper just sung the shinier it got. That's only to 3000. I love jasper, but nobody else seems to appreciate it very much. Jade is much more popular. I have a absolutely incredible piece of emerald green imperial jasper that's translucent that I'm terrified to carve. It didn't cost me that much, but I know I might not ever see such a good piece again.

There are scores of people here that are much better at polishing than I will ever be. I'm only semi-reliable at the carving end of things.

Debbie

Thank you Debbie:)!!! I didn't realize that polishing rocks was a trade secret... dunno28

Maybe because people think of jewelry more as a precious or semi-precious endeavor, and jasper is more of a 'rock'? Now that I think of it, you don't see jaspers and agates often at any 'standard' jewelry store. Boy are they missing out:).

Oops! I'm so new to this, I have no clue that technique might be considered secrets. With glass, the vast majority of technique is shared and reshared, the only trade secrets are how to make a particular signature item, or maybe how to make a particular color combo, it's very rare that basics like tools are trade secrets that I know of.

Pete, thanks for letting us know that too!

Guess newbies don't know better than to ask:P. I'm one of those people who don't dive into doing it til I feel like I CAN do it, the amount of reading I did to figure out how to carve opals was pretty staggering. I didn't even start looking into carving stones like jade and other harder stones, so all this is really enlightening. Thank you all here who have been so helpful!!!

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

I forgot to mention these; the Marsh sander and gugasander. The Marsh sander is a totally unique sander in which the sandpaper is rolled up and put in a cylinder which is attached to an arbor. The sandpaper is actually able to bend and follow the contours of your carving. You can use them with a little water, or dry. The gugasander is tiny for little bitty areas and has to be used dry. The only place I know of that has them is The Old Texas Woodcarver. http://www.texaswoodcarvers.com/Tool_Catalog/Abrasives.htm#Soft Drum Sanders The Marsh sander is a dream when you get it to work right (sandpaper not flying out at you), and you can buy the cloth backed sandpaper that's wet/dry to use in it.

I had the benefit of learning to use Marsh sander under the tutelage of the inventor, Wanda Marsh. She carved the most amazing flowers out of wood, some of the best in the world. I think that store sells some of her books, she was an incredible award-winning carver.

Debbie

That's awesome - I've been using a split mandrel with SiC wrapped around it. Wet it, sand a bit, tear pff a bit paper then repeat.

Definitely be checking this out, thanks!

[helens]

Debbie, have you given any thought to buying a vibrating tumbler for hard stone polishing? You mentioned that you don't need a high shine finish, but there's no need to fully polish with a tumbler. When I want to shape, I shape on a 100 grit wheel, get it exactly the shape I want. Then I put in tumbler and running it with 220 grit, I can get an EVEN matt finish that smoothed out small gouges and rough lines/spots.

If I want it to stay matt, I don't take it to 500 grit even. For a cleaner mat, 500 grit will do it. You can put 20-30 pieces in there at one time just to get the rough out.

I have a post in the 'cabbing' section that you may want to look at... here, I'll link it for you. http://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/index.php/topic,10947.0.html

It is tremendously useful, and I was thinking about your project with the 20 faces you had to do... you could have gotten a much smoother matt finish (pretty sure wood and metals will do exactly the same thing) with a bit less effort, and simply touch up again at the end. This doesn't take one bit away from your artistic talent, but simply saves you some time smoothing pieces, perhaps as  a prep for further carving.