Gemstone Forum archive
Lapidary Shop / Moderator, Catmandewe ( Tony ) => Miscellaneous Shop Talk => Topic started by: Bentiron on October 18, 2012, 05:26:03 PM
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I just got back from an estate sale with my neighbor, he was after a wood lathe and some of the tooling that goes with it, I went just to look as all my money went in my dog Kala. Anyway there was some lapidary equipment and you know I just don't understand the attraction to paying almost new prices for tools that are twenty-five, thirty years old. Someone had already bought all the piles of rock but I guess they didn't need the equipment or knew that it was over priced. This other old phart sure thought he had himself a smoking deal on the two saws and the multi-wheel machine. I bought a couple of small slabs for a quarter a piece and my neighbor bought some tooling for a lathe but like me he couldn't see paying nearly new price for a Jet lathe. I just don't get it.
dunno28
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It's not just rock stuff , people ask almost new prices for horse trailers that have had the floors rotted out by horse piss. I must be missing something because I don't get it.
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Seems to cycle. One year all garage sales asking retail. The next year they're almost giving stuff away dunno28
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Well, if you want it, and the price is absurd, you know it's not going to sell. So you say... I'll leave you my number, I'm willing to pay X for it. I know it's less than you are asking, but it's all I will pay for a used whatever. Call me if you are willing to sell it for that, I'm in no hurry:).
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I do that all the time Helen and maybe I just have bad luck but I have never once gotten a call-back. During those periods when people are asking the high prices they get kind of attitude'ish if you even suggest, for heaven's sake, that it might be worth less. This would be a 'rolleyes' emoticon if we had one.
I have that happen with rocks also. Guy not long ago said his slabs ranged in price - some as high as $100+. So I say, "I'd probably be looking for something less than that". He stops returning emails dunno28 And I'm thinking 'fine - go marry your effin' slabs if you love them that much - I do not'
Can you tell I've breached my quota on how much 'snooty' I'm willing to put up with in a given year? No room in my life for attitude or being looked down on.
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I have noticed prices going up and up also.
I always tell them what I am willing to pay and they either take it or they don't. Sometimes after you walk out they will catch you before you get to the car but sometimes it is a pride issue and they won't sell it for anything less than what they think they want.
Tony
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It seems that working with rocks is making a comeback. I'd expect to see prices on equipment rise even more.
Why? Because every person with a bit of expendable income is becoming a DIY aficionado.
It's like this: The stores here have massive clearances on ready made fashion jewelry, meanwhile they're all expanding their DIY jewelry lines. Walmart, Hobby Lobby, Hancock Fabric, are ones I've seen first hand. I'm sure there are many more.
Every craft show I've been to for the past three years reflects the same. Jewelry, jewelry and more jewelry...
So where's the money? Either in providing crafters with their immediate needs, or waiting for them to break out of the box and start crafting with more traditional and involved techniques like Art Clay, Glass manipulation, Metal Smithing, and Lapidary.
Speaking of... I know you've all seen that "JoolTool"...
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I think estate auctions are the worse. People get in a bidding frenzy and drive prices out of sight. Most of the equipment made in the 70's are desirable due to very high quality, built to last construction.
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The old machines can often be refurbished mechanically in a short day. I am abusing a 50 year old machine every day and it still inspires more confidence than the unit I bought last year. I think people want too much machine too quickly. A two station unit with an expandable drum on one side for sic sanding and the other side to swap wheels would meet most peoples needs , is a very robust machine and will get superlative results for those who do each stage carefully and all that at a moderate price and very little to ever go wrong mechanically.
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Good buys are still out there. Last night I picked up a 6" Rock Rascal trim saw with blade for $75.00 + shipping. Not that I need another trim saw, but the price was very good. Christmas is coming up, and I have a buddy who's just starting to set up a lapidary shop, so what better Christmas gift for him ?
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I just don't know if it is the Phoenix Metro area or not but with all the transit population out here you'd think that when your kin folk die way out here and you have all this stuff to either to dispose of or move back East that you'd want it sold. I was talking to one of the estate sale ladies at a recent sale and she said that her instructions from the family that what didn't sell was to be taken to the landfill, not given to a charity or anything so useful as that but to be taken to the landfill, what a waste. A friend of mine that has since moved to North Carolina used to go in and clean up after estate sales and after deaths in the family and haul all this stuff to the landfill and then I suggested he start up a shop of used items. he and his wife did pretty good until they found out it was not something they could do without a permit and permission of the families. So he started just going through the stuff and giving it to Goodwill. He found it offensive to put good useable items in the landfill.
I just don't get this dog in the manger attitude that some folks have. dunno28
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That attitude represents a great divide in humanity. There is a lot to be said about the advantage of being very poor as a child , it can give you perspective a lot of other people never get .
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Since no one has taken the other side, I will - kinda. My reference has nothing to do with rocks as I don't sell. However, there is nothing that says I couldn't in the future and if I do, I hope I follow my policy of selling other items. I HAVE sold other items through Craigs List, eBay, newspaper ads, etc. When I put something up for sale, I do comparative pricing. In other words, I try to find what like items are selling for and then price whatever I want to sell accordingly. More times than not, I'll get offers that are obviously lowball. I don't begrudge others trying to get a bargain, but unless I'm feeling particularly charitable, my prices are pretty firm. I have no problem if someone doesn't like my price and walks away and I can guarantee you that they won't get a call from me saying that I've changed my mind and will offer the object for a lower price. Maybe because I try to price whatever I sell for a reasonable cost is the reason I don't have that many who come, look, and then walk away.
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Wow, I just got an 18" saw, core drill set up, 4 wheel diamond grinder and polisher, and a bunch of misc. stuff for $500. All the motors work. Grandkid moved into the house to get it ready to sell and has to move it all out. Just have to keep your eyes open for good deals. Bev
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Yeah you do but sometimes it just falls in your lap. Several years ago when I was using blacksmithing to make my sculpture I was looking for a bigger anvil, I already had a 125 pounder, but a heavier anvil will save you a lot of work. Any way this fellow stopped by my studio and said he had a big anvil he'd sell cheap, so I said how cheap and he asked how much did I pay for the one I had, I told him $75 and he asked if I would pay twice that. I said maybe after I'd seen it so off we went to look at and WOW! it was a 300 pounder for $150, now it worth around somewhere between $900 and $1,200 especially out here in Phoenix where we are anvil poor. If I die before I sell it my kids will probably let it go for $50 and think the got a lot for it. yippie24
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Well, like on pawn stars, $100 bills talk. Pull out a roll of cash when you make that offer and see if they will let it walk out the door! walker23
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I just don't know if it is the Phoenix Metro area or not but with all the transit population out here you'd think that when your kin folk die way out here and you have all this stuff to either to dispose of or move back East that you'd want it sold. I was talking to one of the estate sale ladies at a recent sale and she said that her instructions from the family that what didn't sell was to be taken to the landfill, not given to a charity or anything so useful as that but to be taken to the landfill, what a waste. A friend of mine that has since moved to North Carolina used to go in and clean up after estate sales and after deaths in the family and haul all this stuff to the landfill and then I suggested he start up a shop of used items. he and his wife did pretty good until they found out it was not something they could do without a permit and permission of the families. So he started just going through the stuff and giving it to Goodwill. He found it offensive to put good useable items in the landfill.
I just don't get this dog in the manger attitude that some folks have. dunno28
Many times there is no reason I can reckon, but I have worked for at least one company that had a policy - all material that we don't want goes to landfill, no ifs ands or buts. Come to find out they were getting huge tax write-offs - more than they could have sold the stuff for (and certainly less of a pain to do). They were a massive company (global) and rich as snot - you and I would not, I don't think, get equitable writeoffs like that. I think you designated yourself as a disposal service with rights to 'keep' you could do what your friend was trying to do. Not a clue what permits would be needed for that but probably several.
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Several years ago when the county was in the landfill business out in our area I was friends with one of the heavy equipment operators and he and I would divvy up his "good" finds from the landfill if I would take them to the scrap metal dealer for him as he was never off during the week and didn't want to spend his time off at the scrap metal dealer. I got some of the best scrap steel and brass from him. Sometimes when I went to landfill with a load of trash from the house I'd come home with some really useful items, once a whole pickup load of brand new 2x4s that were just dumped out of big roll off dumpster that were still strapped together. My friend used his front-end loader to put then in my truck, he had no use for them. The builder had finished the house and was cleaning up the home site and they just threw them and lots of other material away. I'm kind of a tree huger so I hate to see this kind of waste. There were lots of other useful wood in that load but a full bundle of 2xs pretty much filled my truck. We are such a wasteful society, someday we will be mining landfills for buried materials.
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first i need a place to put it.....and $23,000 =)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rock-Saw-42-Inch-Lapidary-Rock-or-Commercial-Decorative-Stone-Saw-/270898252189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f12cb499d
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first i need a place to put it.....and $23,000 =)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rock-Saw-42-Inch-Lapidary-Rock-or-Commercial-Decorative-Stone-Saw-/270898252189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f12cb499d
And a larger circuit coming into your shop. I saw that one a couple months ago. I'm surprised he hasn't found a rich buyer yet.
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Wow... what would you do with a saw like that? I guess cut up pet wood logs?? Or is that to make granite tiles??
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tombstone maker I guess? A few weeks ago I saw a cab maker for some really high price but I don't think he got one bid on it or maybe it was a make offer kind of deal.
I guess this big old saw would be good for sawing up those 100# boulder you all are hoarding and don't know what to do with.
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I made an offer on that saw last year but he turned me down.
It was essentially a 36" saw as he doesn't have a 42" blade for it, but I see how he has a 40" blade for it, when I looked at it last he only had two 36" blades for it.
Sure would be a fun saw to play with.
Tony
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If this were your trim saw -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf8M_IA01Vk
what would your rock saw look like? dunno28
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Oh I want one of these!!!!! Wouldn't have to figure out how I'm going to lift the rock into the saw!
Bev
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chuckle02
they should name it the mountain trimmer...
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I wonder what a used one is going for, probably less that a 6" trim saw here in Phoenix? hide35
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Oh I want one of these!!!!! Wouldn't have to figure out how I'm going to lift the rock into the saw!
Bev
Bev, that's exactly what I was thinking with the 40" saw. Looks you would need a monorail and chainfall to be able to load the vice. I don't think I'd be sawing any 10 pounders with it.
39don
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I've got a 1 ton electric hoist with trolley wheels. All you'd need is the rail above the saw.
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I've got a 1 ton electric hoist with trolley wheels. All you'd need is the rail above the saw.
And $23,000 plus shipping............
39don
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Shipping would be no problem. I have a trucker buddy who moves through that area fairly regularly. Coming up with the $23,000 is another matter. Need a big lottery ticket.
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I was buying an iced tea at circle K yesterday and the fellow in front of me was buying $20 worth of PowerBall tickets. when I paid for my tea the clerk told me the guys spend $40 every week on tickets, at that rate if I had a spare $40 a week I wouldn't need to worry where I was going to get the money for used equipment I be buying new. At $2,080 a year on tickets this fellow would be doing better to invest his money even as bad as the market is. dunno28
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LOL, that same trucker buddy called a few days ago. While on a layover in Florida, he bought a $10,000 lottery ticket. I'm now on the lookout for a good used slab saw for him in the 16" to 24" range.
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used equipment prices are high, but man have you guys priced out new saws and grinders? WOW astronomical prices. I don't know how the manufacturers manage to sell enough to stay in business.
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Yeah you do but sometimes it just falls in your lap. Several years ago when I was using blacksmithing to make my sculpture I was looking for a bigger anvil, I already had a 125 pounder, but a heavier anvil will save you a lot of work. Any way this fellow stopped by my studio and said he had a big anvil he'd sell cheap, so I said how cheap and he asked how much did I pay for the one I had, I told him $75 and he asked if I would pay twice that. I said maybe after I'd seen it so off we went to look at and WOW! it was a 300 pounder for $150, now it worth around somewhere between $900 and $1,200 especially out here in Phoenix where we are anvil poor. If I die before I sell it my kids will probably let it go for $50 and think the got a lot for it. yippie24
Wish I had a way to transport an anvil back when my grandfather passed. the old family anvil that was passed down the generations got left in the barn when the house was sold by the eldest son. bricks21
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Depending on where you live, the brand of the anvil and the condition, anvils are now going for anywhere from $1.50/# to $3/#. New anvils, depending on brand and country of origin, are going for $7/# to $20/#. An anvil will seldom be worn out on a farm or in a small local blacksmith shop but it will more than likely be abused to a point where it is not useable for much more than a boat anchor. Cast iron anvils that are made in China are good door stops and boat anchors. One brand of anvil that you want to grab if you find it for sale is a Fisher. Fisher anvils are cast iron with a tool steel face and are a very quiet anvil, no ring with these babies, great if you live in a residential are and want to do blacksmithing at home, just a dull "thunk, thunk, thunk" when forging. Anvil that are made of wrought and tool steel ring like bells and are hard to quiet and are hard on your ears. Never leave an anvil behind unless you are flying and TSA won't allow you through the check point with it.
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The California company that bought up all the old suppliers is involved in other things. I once saw how they were involved in lawsuits over cattle feed that they made. I suspect they make other things and just make lapidary equipment to order as Maxant used to. The big manufacturer here in Washington state ( not so big when you go to the factory) is now making equipment of advanced high school shop class quality. The quality control is poor and the designs are bizarre , extra studs for brackets where you don't need them and not enough studs where you do. I suspect they no longer have an engineering staff and their journey man shop mechanics were probably let go to cut costs. Big change very quickly. The Chinese equipment leaves me shaking my head. With their labor costs they could easily produce sturdier machines but they don't seem to need to as Americans are struggling for twenty years now economically and we buy what we can afford.
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Well when I get my shop finished, (again), I am going to build slab saws.
It seems just when I get enough money saved up to pay for the concrete then someone calls me wanting to sell a pile of rocks, and then suddenly I am saving up for concrete again.
Jake, tell your trucker buddy I have some saws here if he is interested, then maybe I can be on my way to pouring concrete again!
Tony
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Hey Tony, he should be back in Billings in a few days. I'll have him get in touch with you.
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I got really lucky. I had just gotten back from China and moved to Wyoming. I was a soft stone carver and was not looking for any machines. My niece introduced me to a friend of hers that was selling her fathers things since he had died a couple of years before. I followed her home and bought an old Lortone 12" saw and a fairly new 10" Craftsman drill press for $125. The motor did not work on the saw but I picked up four old motors at a garage sale for $20. It was the stupidest $145 purchase I have ever made. Since that purchase I have spent thousands on the hobby so those two items cost me dearly. But it was not the first time because I have had a lot of hobbies but none of them cost me nearly as much as this one. Ain't this hobby fun.
Jim
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I know how that works, you buy a saw then you need rough. Once you pass the ton mark on rough you know your in trouble so to speak. Hmmm! And for me that was some years back.
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I looked for my first rock saw for years before finding one I could afford that was before the internet. Now there are websites that allow you to search all craigslists all across the country this is a good one: http://www.searchtempest.com/ I have seen quite a few excellent deals on saws/grinders etc. by searching that way.
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LOL Bryan. Where should I start ? Over a ton of rocks in the shed. Rocks in the breezeway and garage. Large cutters in the rock garden. Boxes of rocks in the living room and basement. Rocks sitting around my computer. 2 cabbing units, 5 saws, a 20" vibrolap, an 8" Inland flat lap, A Dremel and a Foredom, 2 dop pots, a pile of spare motors, a box full of various size pulleys, bearings, spacers, left and right hand nuts, spare wheels and saw blades, a small sphere machine and a nearly finished large sphere machine. Do I have enough toys ? Nah !! eyes12 I want more. chuckle02 chuckle02 chuckle02
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The real way to measure a rock pile is by how many acres it covers , to my wife's dismay.
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I bought a big bench drill from China, new, the first time I turned it on it bounced about and everything was just out of line and crap!! I had only paid £25 for it, so just put it down to experience.
Then an engineering friend of mine took it away returning it 2 weeks later saying "try that now"
It worked perfect! all he had done was to take it apart and reassemble it properly, he replaced 2 bearings that he said were just not the right size.
I suppose if these machines are being put together by workers more used to being farmers than engineers what can you expect.
Theres nothing wrong with the design, the drill was an exact copy of an English design, just not assembled right.
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When a design is copied with out permission and transfer of engineering specs there is an inherent problem that the criteria for the design are not understood and problems always arise. You have a very thoughtful friend. A lot of the folks on the forum would benefit from a relationship with a neighborhood machinist. Using a local , usually semi- retired machinist can be very rewarding as well as pleasantly eye opening as to the cost of certain parts and repairs.
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The friend has worked in engineering all his life and rebuilds steam engines in his retirment (full size ones). His knowledge is a legend.
Dont have a prayer of finding spares for lapping machines in the UK. Or even buying new machines without paying the daft VAT and customs duty to import one from the USA. (was quoted £1800 for a 4 wheel combo unit) work that out in US money dunno28.
He did give me a good tip, I went to a motor (auto) spares shop that has been going since 1945, there back yard is full of spares dating back to the start. Drive belts, bearings, old english spec nuts and bolts (before we went metric) it has been a godsend for keeping lots of my old equipment running.
Then he phones me and asks "have you ever heard of a 10inch Beech slab saw" Getting all exited I said "yes I give almost anything to get hold of one"
He says "Well Im looking at one now, still in its packing box, unused dated 1972 its yours if you can use it"
"how much" voice trembling now
His answer " well I can drop it off tomorrow, if that lovely young wife of yours makes me breakfast, that will cover it"
He had a excelent breakfast wile I played with my free slab saw!! happy days
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A brand new saw for fixing breakfast is a pretty good deal I would say.
Nice score!
Tony
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Hey Tony, glad to hear the Madman hooked up with you, and bought one of your saws. The guy was driving me crazy trying to find him a saw. Wait until you see Mt. Madman in his back yard. He's collected some interesting material on his travels.
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Yeah he told me if I would deliver it he would send me home with rocks, so guess I am going to Montana sometime in the near future.
I can hear the rocks calling me now...........................Tony
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He'll do right by you Tony. You should see some of the beautiful material he's left with me when he's hauling wind machine blades from here.
I let him dig through my rock pile, and always feel bad when he leaves. For every 10 lbs of rocks he leaves here, he takes at best 2 lbs of my material.
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Bottom line is the older stuff was built much better than today. You might have to change a bearing here and there, tweak this or that etc but basically the old stuff is about bullet proof and that's why people want it.
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Spent the last four days at Quartzsite buying rough and asking prices of every piece of used equipment I saw. Virtually every price was at least as high as you would expect to pay for a totally rebuilt unit on Ebay. I should mention that Quartzite is where everyone takes their really tired equipment to get rid of it instead of fixing it. Can you say ugly? I did finally find a ten inch Poly arbor with original cast iron covers for $100 at the Pow Wow. It was the only reasonable price I found. Next year I would bet it will all be half or maybe just later in the season.
Quartzsite has really changed in the last few years. Downtown is virtually dead and what used to be flea markets have morphed into very overpriced antique malls. As an antique gun collector I always look at the old ones. Everything I saw was about double the book price and most are very poor condition. Rocks have gone up much faster than inflation, but I expected that. Still there are deals to be had. Always check with Anna to see what special pyranna she has unpacked today. Lord I love pyranna. Altogether I spent $1000 more or less on about 40 pounds of rough. Maybe the best I've ever found. If you go, be sure to check out J2B2 at the West end of town. Sorry, I'm awful with names. I've bid against these people at auction, but they really know what they are doing. Still , really good people and fair pricing. Still searching for Pilbarra jasper.
We are now in Tuscon. The search continues.
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Congratulations! I was able to select through hundreds of pounds of world class new botswana this fall and know exactly that wonderful sensation of getting something so special.
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if you want pilbarra, check with glenn archer glenn@outbackmining.com he usually sells at tucson
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if you want pilbarra, check with glenn archer glenn@outbackmining.com he usually sells at tucson
Yes, I checked with both of the Australians. They told me it would probably never be seen again. I also found an Australian dealer here in Tucson who told me the same thing. He did have pilbarra but only in red and brown. I am looking for the black with red and yellow streaks.