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Author Topic: New member with question: spitter or drip?  (Read 3242 times)

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Delia_Stone

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New member with question: spitter or drip?
« on: November 06, 2017, 01:38:56 PM »

Hello,
My name is Delia and I've been making jewelry for many years.  Recently my husband and I decided to invest in a lapidary machine.  I was speaking to a friend about this recently who said not to get a machine with a drip system, rather to get one with a spitter.  She said she had heard bad stories about the drip systems but didn't go I to details and I didn't think to ask at the time.  I would really appreciatehearing from some of the members here on what their preference is and why.  What do you see as the advantage/disadvantage of each?  I read some other posts here I  the forum where someone mentioned that the drip advantage was that only clean water was on the stone.  Does that really make a difference and if so would you mind explaining why?  Remember, I am a 100% newb so if I ask an ignorant question it is because I am ignorant of the subject matter and asking is how I begin to shed that ignorance. 😁 
Thank you all in advance for sharing your time and experience with me.

Delia Stone
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Delia_Stone

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 01:41:40 PM »

Oh Yes!  Meant to mention. We are looking at the 6" cab king which manages to fit our newbie budget (okay, even that stretches it a bit) and I would be grateful for feedback from anyone familiar with this machine - the good, bad and the ugly!

Delia
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55fossil

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 02:41:20 PM »

    Fresh water on the stone is best, however you do it. Spitting water out of the basin onto the wheel has several drawbacks. When the water has been used for awhile it becomes dirty and clouded. This obscures the stone and also means you are spitting water with tiny particles of stone into the air you breathe. The dirty water also means you are putting the ground off stone onto the polishing wheels which is not good. As each step is using finer grit you are spitting coarse material onto the polish wheel.
     I am completing my new shop and installed a pressurized line using 1 inch PVC. I added simple brass taps that have 1/4 inch tubing that goes to each machine that needs water. I can adjust the water spray at each wheel to fit the rock being ground into a cabochon. Stones such as Rhodonite and Malachite are really dirty so need more water even though they are soft. I then ran a 2 inch PVC pipe under the work bench for drain water. Run a drain line from each machine into it or just get a five gallon bucket for your starter period. Most things you need to practice and find out what works for you. But clean water is best even if it just drips.  good luck,  neal
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lithicbeads

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 02:46:07 PM »

Cab king drips are horrible , the system is very poorly designed , designed to fail . Drip works best overall but Lotone and cab  king have lowered the bar. Diamond Pacific spitters are ok but would not work with silican carbide belts as they do not supply enough water. A drip system based on a bucket on a shelf above the machine with aquarium tubing and a valve served me well for almost half a century .
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gemfeller

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2017, 02:57:37 PM »

FWIW, I use a Genie spitter system modified to use the household water supply.  It delivers plenty of clean water for 6-inch wheels.  It required drilling outlets in the splash pans plus suitable piping to get rid of wastewater.  Since I have no drain in my work area I collect the wastewater in a 5-gallon bucket beneath my workbench and use a small submersible pump to direct it to a pipe through the wall to my rain drain system.  Works beautifully for me.
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55fossil

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2017, 03:01:25 PM »

  Gemfeller....   could you post a picture?  I bet a lot of people could use your idea on many types of polishers. Also, using pressurized water to the drip system can help any system. You need to install a valve to control the pressure of fresh water but it is worth it.
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Delia_Stone

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 03:18:56 PM »

. This obscures the stone and also means you are spitting water with tiny particles of stone into the air you breathe. The dirty water also means you are putting the ground off stone onto the polishing wheels which is not good. As each step is using finer grit you are spitting coarse material onto the polish wheel.
That makes perfect sense.  Thank you for spelling it out for me. 
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Delia_Stone

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 03:23:52 PM »

Cab king drips are horrible ...  A drip system based on a bucket on a shelf above the machine with aquarium tubing and a valve served me well for almost half a century .

Thank you for that info.  I guess we will have to improvise a better drip system for the cab king.  Any feedback on other aspects of the cab king?  Hoping it will prove to be a decent cabbing machine outside of the imperfections of the drip system.
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Debbie K

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 07:35:26 PM »

I use a small water pump in a 5 gallon bucket under my bench to feed the drip system on my mystery grinder. I drain into a separate bucket.

I have seen people convert Genies to drip systems because of the cross contamination problem.

I hope you guys have lots of fun but be aware: Rocks are terribly addictive!

Debbie K
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gemfeller

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 08:52:50 PM »

55fossil, Shooting a picture of my system may be difficult because it's sort've strung out over a large area.  I started to write a detailed description this afternoon but Life intervened.  I'll get back to it tomorrow hopefully and maybe it will be of help to someone.
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Slabbercabber

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 05:09:44 AM »

I use a three tier cascade system to settle the solids out of the water.  After the last cascade the clean water is pumped back to the drip system by a tile cutter pump.  A simple finger valve can control the feed from a drip to a flood.  Reusing water allows the use of wetting agent and anti-rust additive at low cost.  I can also heat the water.  The only problems I have encountered are the occasionally clogged drain line.  My drain lines are only 1/2".  I solve that with a quick squeeze on an ear syringe.  I have no idea if spitters cause problems with grit sprayed onto the stone, but over the years I've heard many users of these systems talk about the dust that settles around their grinders and that obviously was in the air they breathe.  I have no such problem.
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hummingbirdstones

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 05:46:14 AM »

Welcome, Della, from Northern Arizona!   :hello:

We have 2 Genies and use the spitters.  Never have had any problems with any cross contamination, but drips do work better than the spitters.  The spitters tend to clog up over time.  I ream mine out with dental picks when that happens.   :icon_sunny:

I'm looking forward to Gemfeller's instructions -- maybe we'll be able to rig something similar up.
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Robin

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 10:04:46 AM »

I also use the spitters and have not had problems with cross contamination.  I think you are more likely to get the contamination coming off the roof of the grinding well than the spitter.  I also when moving the spitter between wheels on single stones I cover the top of the spitter after moving it for about 30 seconds to clear any contaminants without having them sprayed on the wheels.  If I am doing a batch of stones I prefer to clean the trough and well between grits.  Nothing wrong with overheads if they are aligned properly.  I also use 2 spitters per wheel to get plenty of water on across the whole surface.  With only a single spitter I have seen if it is centered on the wheel and you are on an aggressive grit the edges can dry on you.  It sounds like Gemfeller has the best of the concepts with spitters only throwing clean water although roof contaminants can still happen.
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jerrysg

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 10:17:06 AM »

I supervise one session of the cab lab at our local lapidary club.  We have both drip and spitter machines. A unmentioned problem with the spitters is that they move due to the vibrations in the machine, leading to the wheels drying out. This is more of a problem with newbees but I still have to remind the veterans from time to time as they become engrossed in the work and don't notice that the spitters are no longer in the right place.

Jerry
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gemfeller

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Re: New member with question: spitter or drip?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 11:44:40 AM »

55fossil, I forgot to mention the pressure control valve - thanks.  I'd like to post an image but it's such a strung-out system it's hard to photograph so I'll describe what I did.
 
To catch up with current comments, I’ve never experienced a problem I can attribute to cross-contamination, either with the old pump system or my new one.  My own opinion is that it’s mainly an imaginary problem for those using Nova-type soft wheels.  I get scratches but I can always trace them to my own error, usually from getting in a hurry or not drying out a stone and inspecting it with a loupe to make sure there are now problems  before going on to the next grit. I'm not scrupulous about keeping my machine clean either.
 
I cut with a Genie I bought gently used in 1989 – no experience with the newer models.  It’s a great machine but the Genie has 2 major weaknesses as I see it.  First is the junky OEM particle board base that rots and warps quickly and second is the pump.  I replaced the base on mine with a waterproof polyethylene cutting board but the pump was a constant problem so I decided to bypass it.

I tapped into my water heater's inlet cold water line and ran a long plastic line over a bank of cabinets to the pressure valve near the cab machine.  There are several ways to tap into the line and a plumber may be needed depending on individual situations.  I used a self-tapping gizmo I bought at the local hardware store like this: 
Tapper.jpg
*Tapper.jpg (7.95 kB . 272x272 - viewed 306 times)
Mine is a slightly heavier-duty version but this illustrates the principle.

I use a simple needle valve to regulate pressure: 
Valve.jpg
*Valve.jpg (7.66 kB . 272x272 - viewed 326 times)

To hold the pressure valve in-line I removed the nuts shown above and substituted barbed fittings at the inlet/outlet ends and secured them with small hose clamps.  I used appropriately-sized fittings similar to the one shown at bottom left  here:
Brass-fitting-air-hose-connector-brass-hose_jpg_640x640 (200x200).jpg
*Brass-fitting-air-hose-connector-brass-hose_jpg_640x640 (200x200).jpg (40.53 kB . 200x200 - viewed 288 times)
 
I searched for a reducer to adapt from the 3/8 OD/1/4 ID plastic supply line to the smaller Genie spitter line but couldn't find anything that would work.  I found that the smaller line fit fairly snugly inside the supply line so I jammed it in, let it dry out completely, then 5-minute-epoxied the heck out of it.  Twice.  It’s a sloppy solution but it works and that’s all I ask. I'm sure others will find a better method.

I drilled holes at the back bottom of the splash pans and epoxied these things in  (don’t know what they’re called). Your hardware man will know.
001 (150x125).jpg
*001 (150x125).jpg (30.6 kB . 150x125 - viewed 279 times)
 
When the epoxy  set up I attached drain lines to the above hardware and ran it to my catch pail.  I use a 5-gallon bucket and find I need to drain it with my submersible pump a couple of times each 2 or 3-hour cutting session.  As mentioned earlier, I don’t have a drain in my shop so I drilled a hole through the wall and ran a drain line from my pump to a nearby outdoor rain drain.  But every situation will be different.

If I was doing it again I think I’d tap into the hot water line or find some way to warm the cold water – even here in “sunny” CA it gets darned cold and winter cutting can be uncomfortable on the hands with my system.  Any suggestions to warm the water would be welcomed. 
Hope this makes sense and helps someone.

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