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Author Topic: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment  (Read 3735 times)

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amlap

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Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« on: May 23, 2017, 09:00:20 AM »

Hi everyone. After doing some research, I have found that most dedicated lapidary is out of my budget for the time being. I tried a bench grinder but found that the wheels spin too fast and it was definitely not suitable for any kind of wet grinding. I have a rotary tool and work station and have had some success with those but they're obviously going to be pretty time consuming for larger pieces. So after looking around on Amazon, I have found the following two pieces of equipment that I believe will suit to start out:

https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4270-2-Direction-Cooled-Sharpening/dp/B01M325869/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1495554368&sr=8-2&keywords=wet+sharpener
This sharpener has a pretty low RPM, which concerns me about the time it will take to do rough grinding. However, I think that with perhaps a smaller SC wheel with lower grit (or later a diamond wheel) that it should serve. It just might take a bit longer. The leather stropping wheel should work with some diamond polishing paste and could also be changed out for other buffing wheels or polishing grits. I was also thinking of making some wooden wheels that I could then use with flat lap sanding wheels. I would just have to keep some water handy and dip the stones often. The machine claims 115 RPM as its speed and has a 1/2" arbor.

https://www.amazon.com/Studio-Precision-2000-Deluxe-Band/dp/B007V4VFUC/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1495554653&sr=8-10&keywords=precision+2000+deluxe
This hobby band saw has a diamond blade and is supposed to be able to cut through glass, stone, and tile. It doesn't seem to be able to cut very large pieces, but I thought that it might serve to cut small slabs and as a trim saw. I was thinking about creating a linear slide rig with screw clamps in order to hold pieces to be cut into slabs in place to ensure accuracy and avoid losing fingers.

Anyone that has some time to look at these, please let me know if there are any flaws in my logic. I don't want to get invested and then realize that I overlooked something. I'm a pretty patient guy and am fairly handy so I don't mind doing some modifications. I can also deal with taking a bit more time to get things cut or polished up. I aiming to be able to cut a fair amount of slabs as well as shaping and polishing jewelry pieces. I would greatly appreciate any advice or ideas that anyone has and will be happy to share my results once I get started. Thank you very much and have a great day!
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ToTheSummit

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 10:53:26 AM »

Equipment is the toughest part about getting interested in this hobby.  When I first started I was also looking at all kinds of inexpensive options to get me started.  Looking back, many of those things would never have done well and been a waste of my money.  Luckily I had a local club with a nice shop where I could go cut rock.  They have slabs saws of all sizes, trim saws, genies and flat laps.  More than enough equipment to keep me satisfied until I got my own shop set up. It took me a couple years before I was fully set up at home where I didn't need to use the club shop anymore.  If you have a local club with a shop that you can use I would highly recommend joining and taking advantage of that option while you figure out what you want to buy.

If you don't have a local club as an option and your budget is limited then of course creativity is key to getting you going.  They say there are a hundred ways to skin a cat, and that certainly applies to cutting rocks.  I've only really been at it for a little over 5 years myself so I don't have a wealth of experience with different pieces of equipment.  My father has a grinder similar to the first one you linked (designed more for sharpening knives, etc) and I thought about trying it but never did since I had the club shop available.  The logic seems sound that you could make it work with some effort, but I don't personally know anyone who has used one like that.  Maybe someone here has some experience with something similar.  And I have never used a band saw for rock, but I know someone here will have some experience and opinions there.

My home shop really took off when I bought a slab saw.  I bought a very nice used 10" saw from a member here at the forums.  A $500 dollar investment, and my first real big purchase.  That little saw has given me more joy than I could've imagined before buying it and it is still the workhorse of my home shop.  It runs almost constantly when I'm in the shop tinkering and I can't begin to count the amount of wonderful slabs I have cut with it.  I still get the most joy out of cutting open rough stones and seeing what treasure hides within.  So my recommendation is to start with a small slab saw that fits your budget.  Once you have slabs cut the process to continue on with cabbing can take a myriad of different paths.  Your rotary tool will do a lot if you are patient.  I still use a dremmel all the time, and I am currently shopping to buy a Foredom rotary tool to get into some more heavy carving projects.
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domdeslagons

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 01:47:25 PM »

Yes a lapidary club is definitely highly recommend! The problem of buying tools when you are beginning is that you don't really know what you can do! I was also very lucky to learn is a club and had, therefore no problem with tools! At home to make small things, I have also a Dremel, it is very easy to find diamond tools for it on ebay (THK is a good provider). I would also invest in a 10"saw if I were you. The band saw won't allow you cut slabs. It would only serve to cut precise forms, it could be useful for jewelry. It really depend on your budget but beware not to by tools that you won't use finally. May be  a flat lap would be cheeper than a combo.
I am sure you'll find a lot od advise on this forum. I don't know where you are from but if it is US then, you also might find easily second hand tools!

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Slabbercabber

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 03:42:35 PM »

The Wen machine will run way too slow for stone grinding.  Also it is not built to stand up to the rigors of constant use.  The bandsaw will cut very slowly and the cost of blades will keep you bankrupt.  There is a reason machines are designed specifically for lapidary purposes.  You would be better off buying used machines made for the purpose.
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Barclay

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 07:15:20 PM »

The Ameritool swap top is a great starter unit.  It is relatively inexpensive, small and easy to operate.  Stay away from Inland Lapidary, their machines are junk.  A brick saw from Harbor Freight will let you do some slabbing without breaking the bank.  A tile saw from Harbor Freight or Home Depot will let you do light to medium trimming.
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irockhound

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 09:05:22 PM »

A note on the band saw.  My sister picked one up when she was doing glass and thought it may work for stone and although it is a diamond blade it is SOOOOOO slow you will give up the first slab you try to trim.  It really is meant for glass and the blade diameter is also really big and even if it was faster it would waste so much material.  I would steer clear of it if your intended use is lapidary.  I would check a local club or 2 and see if any older members are starting to clear their equipment they might not use any more.

I would probably start the cheapest route with the low cost 6" trim saw basic out of someplace like KingsleyNorth and then add a All in one vertical lap/cabber as they tend to be less expensive than full grinding units just more work changing your grit/lap out each time.
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amlap

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 06:05:52 AM »

Thank you to everyone for the great advice. After reading what you all had to say, I agree that the band saw is unlikely to be a good purchase. I looked some more and found this saw: https://www.amazon.com/2-5-Horsepower-Industrial-Tile-Brick/dp/B008JE670G/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1495630147&sr=8-5&keywords=wet+saw. I think that it should be able to do the trick for slabbing but I might lose a bit of finesse when it comes to trimming. Does anyone have any experience or an opinion about this one?

For the grinder, I expect that on the grinder side I won't be able to remove a ton of material rapidly. However, i did read somewhere that flat laps tend to have low RPM's to avoid sending coolant flying everywhere. Would you all agree with that? I expect that if I can cut my materials carefully, then I shouldn't have a huge amount of full on grinding to have to do, Mostly just some shaping and then the sanding and polishing.

I'm hoping to get our local rock club soon, but they only meet once a month here. Time would also be a factor as far as using any of their equipment as I don't have much extra to deal with packing up the pieces I want to work with and transporting them. But I will try to get with them as soon as I can.

Thank you all again for your advice and for such a warm welcome.  :toothy10:
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irockhound

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 05:19:16 PM »

The tile saw is made by Chicago Electric which is a brand of Harbor Freight.  If you have a Harbor Freight near you the saw is only 279.99 directly from them.  Do realize that the tile saw runs too fast for most Diamond blades and you will need to get a speed controller also to drop the rpm on the tile saw.  Otherwise you can purchase the new "Agate Kutter" blades from Barranca Diamond which are designed for the higher speeds of tile saws.  I haven't used them personally so I can't speak for if they glaze quicker due to the speeds.  Agate Kutter Diamond Blade 10"x.050"x5/8" is 115.00 from KingsleyNorth so shop around for best price, I think the shaft on the Chicago is 5/8.
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jerrysg

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 08:40:34 PM »

However, i did read somewhere that flat laps tend to have low RPM's to avoid sending coolant flying everywhere. Would you all agree with that? I expect that if I can cut my materials carefully, then I shouldn't have a huge amount of full on grinding to have to do, Mostly just some shaping and then the sanding and polishing.


I would disagree with that.  We have the Ameritool 8" flat lap ( http://www.ameritool-inc.com/store/index.cfm/product/5_8/universal-heavy-duty-grinder-and-polishing-machine-complete-with-accessories-kit.cfm )and it does not spray water everywhere. If you look at the picture on the link above, you will see that the disk is surrounded by a plastic collar that contains the water. Normally I work it without an apron. When the weather is poor here in southeast Arizona, we even bring it into the motorhome to work. Attach a piece of plastic tubing to the outlet and run it into a jug for collection.  Setting up on the counter next to the sink allows easy access to water to fill the drip cup but I never pour the collected overflow into the sink.  That goes outside and is poured over the gravel.

I am a monitor for our club's cabochon lab and have access to a number of Diamond Pacific Genies and Titans but prefer to use my Ameritool. For one thing it doesn't reuse the water.

One advantage of the Ameritool is that it is variable speed, a feature that many other lapidary tools do not have.  That lets you adjust the speed to suit the rock you are working.  The only thing a flat lap can not do is inside surfaces so hearts and crosses are out as are cabs with concave shapes. If I must do a concave cab, I use the club's machines.

Since the flat lap machines only have one grit installed at a time, it does take some planning. I work multiple stones at one time and work them all on one grit and then change discs.  You must carefully examine each stone as you work because if you have to go back a grit or two to correct some scratches you missed, it messes up the work flow. Not as much of a problem on a multi-wheel machine.

I would suggest you look into the combination of the Ameritool 8" flat lap and the 4" trim saw. (tip: it takes 5" blades too). The pair cost about $1000 new.  About 1/2 what a 6" multi-wheel machines runs.

Jerry

PS Where are you located. Someone here might be able to suggest a local club.
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Steve Ramsdell

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2017, 09:43:12 PM »

I don't know your area, but if you have a community college or larger you may have metalworking and stone cutting available there.  The problem with getting started is being able to try different machines before you buy your own.  That is also the problem with working in only one shop.  You only see a limited amount of equipment.  Many manufacturers are starting to make videos of how their products work.  Even Harbor Freight has some.  Many can be found on you tube.  The main thing is to think things through and move slowly.
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amlap

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 02:22:21 PM »

Hi everyone,

I thought I would come in with an update. I ended up getting the Chicago Electric tile saw and the Wen knife sharpener. I bought a MK Hot Dog diamond blade and so far it is working great! The biggest problem that I have had is with clamping. However, with a bit of experimentation and a lot of research, I have created some good methods that have helped to reduce saw marks while also ensuring I don't lose any fingers. The water pump on it is fantastic and does a great job of keeping everything clean and cool. After I have recouped some of my investment money, I'm planning on picking up one of the Agate Kutter blades as suggested by irockhound.

I rigged up the knife sharpener so that I can use flat lap discs on it and thus far, they are working quite well. But this is mostly just for getting to polish. As far as grinding, I have found it to be too slow as Slabbercabber said. I bought some grinding bits for my rotary tool though and they are doing the trick. I also made some felt wheels and loaded them with diamond paste to get to the higher grits and then take the leather wheel and drizzle a slurry of water and aluminum oxide on it. I've gotten a pretty good polish on some of my pieces but I'm still working on getting that mirror shine.

I admit that it's surely not the best or most efficient set up, but it's doing the job to take a bit over fist sized raw pieces and getting them to the reasonably well polished pendant pieces. For larger raw slabs that I have acquired, I've been using my cordless drill with diamond sanding pads that are used for marble. These, along with a spray bottle, do a good job for those large pieces that I can't really fit onto the machine.

Hope this helps someone and just let me know if anyone has any questions. Thanks again for all of the advice.
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finegemdesigns

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Re: Requesting Advice About Starter Equipment
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 04:33:47 PM »

Save your money up and go all diamond equipment.
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