Lapidaryforum.net
Gadgets, Gizmos, and Dohickeys => Tool Talk => Topic started by: montanajohn on July 05, 2017, 08:41:44 PM
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I have formed some opinions down through the cutting years, mostly based on costs, and would like to hear from knowledgeable people about saw oil. My local power company gave me 70 gallons of transformer oil a few years ago, which I understand, is good. The next time I asked them, they had over 100 gallons of hydraulic oil, as they change oil on their drilling machines annually, and it too, was free. Hydraulic oil is maybe a bit lighter than cutting oil, but I recall a rock shop in Nampa Id using diesel fuel in all their saws, and getting by with it for years, no flash fires, explosions, or sudden deaths. Has anyone compared blade wear and cost with (free) oil of whatever constituency to (expensive) rock cutting oil?
Thanks
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There have been a lot of posts on oil and I have seen a good number of them say that the transformer oils contain a lot of pcb's. I know that the earlier oils were worse and I used Shell Diala AX for a while and although it worked well as a cutting oil it did have it's mist issues and the main thing it inhaling oils mists and of course depending on the oil it's skin absorption. Since I always wear gloves when using the saws that is minimized. I have switched to straight Mineral oil and am pleased with it. I use the Equine Laxative Mineral oil. I buy it for $12 per gallon with free shipping. I do not miss the smell of my slabs even a year after leaving it in the kitty litter (clean) to soak up the oil and then washing the slab it it will forever smell of the oil now they have a pleasant smell of baby oils and when washed they just don't smell.
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PCBs were eliminated from transformer oil many years ago, but unless you know for sure that the oil is of recent manufacture, I would stay away from it. Newer transformer oil is unlikely to have additives as it's only purpose is to circulate and cool the coils. Hydraulic oils have additives that may or may not be hazardous. At least look up the MSDS for the one you are using.
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chevron shingle oil, Has a flash point of 351 degrees F. only coolant i use in my large saws.
I use to mix no.2 stove oil with clean trans oil. an a pint of pine-sol. in 15 gallons or more.
j
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There have been a lot of posts on oil and I have seen a good number of them say that the transformer oils contain a lot of pcb's. I know that the earlier oils were worse and I used Shell Diala AX for a while and although it worked well as a cutting oil it did have it's mist issues and the main thing it inhaling oils mists and of course depending on the oil it's skin absorption. Since I always wear gloves when using the saws that is minimized. I have switched to straight Mineral oil and am pleased with it. I use the Equine Laxative Mineral oil. I buy it for $12 per gallon with free shipping. I do not miss the smell of my slabs even a year after leaving it in the kitty litter (clean) to soak up the oil and then washing the slab it it will forever smell of the oil now they have a pleasant smell of baby oils and when washed they just don't smell.
I to have switched to the Equine Laxative Mineral oil. All the other stuff is just not good for you to smell or wear or have around for months in your saws. Since my saws are all in my daylight basement I just decided to go this route.
Gary
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Thank you gentlemen. I have been fixated on costs and have ignored the health aspects. Power company boys say the pcbs were eliminated many years ago, but they do not often have opportunities to dismantle transformers. It would be interesting to find solid information on hydraulic oil as its so readily available. Anywhere power equipment (farm tractors) is moving, this oil is available, and free.
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friend used 20 SAE. hydraulic food grade oil in saws. Cost through the wallet.
its all about flash point and ware on blade. On the rock BBQ.
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I'm also using the Equine Mineral Oil with very good results.
I have purchased it from the local Tractor Supply Store but is a bit pricey($20).
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Stay away from oils that were not made for human contact.
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Been said before, free shipping ..
https://www.scahealth.com/scah/product/mineral-oil-light
Great stuff, low mist, doesn't smell and relieves obstructions...heh....heh
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Been said before, free shipping ..
https://www.scahealth.com/scah/product/mineral-oil-light
Great stuff, low mist, doesn't smell and relieves obstructions...heh....heh
This is where I get mine. Free shipping on 4 gals.
Gary
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Yeah I bought 24 gallons last purchase from SCAhealth and the oil works great and the shipping was free as mentioned. I had tried local feed stores and the best price I could get was 18 per gallon. At 12 per gallon at SCA they are a good deal.
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If I have to pay 20 (or 12) $/gallon my saws will have to sit. We all have to make the choice as best suits what we have.
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If I have to pay 20 (or 12) $/gallon my saws will have to sit. We all have to make the choice as best suits what we have.
I know two gentlemen that have cut with diesel for years and years and years. One died at 90 something and the other one is still living, still cutting rocks, still having fun. Surely $3 and some change should make it feasible for you.
Gary
When they cut a slab it goes into a pan full of cat litter (- the poop of course)
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I do not see the oil as worse than diesel, but who knows? I was in a place once where orange rain came down on us from airplanes and maybe somebody said it might be bad for us but there were a lot of other ways to die then. The years since have proven the somebody right, most of my friends from then are long dead of agent orange and God knows how many Vietnamese families joined them. But consider the next time you take your old rock hunting pickup to your mechanic, before he crawls under it, tell him to be sure and stay out of the oil
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There was a guy selling an herbal supplement that was 82. His father was 102 and in good health. Sounds great but he only started using it 10 years earlier.
You can make anything sound good so use common sense. If you want to use cheap oil that has been known to cause health problems then take extra precautions. Well ventilated room, gloves and a mask for starters. If you want to take chances that is your choice, we are all free people. But telling people who are new to lapidary not to worry is probably not a good idea. I still have friends over 60 who have used Mercury for gold mining many years. Not sure if they were always crazy but they are not all that healthy either.
PS: I paid to have ALS Minerals do a thorough test on the new Ocean Breeze Jasper.
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Has anyone seen any written data on oils, fuels, etc from knowledgeable sources, that might indicate what is and is not dangerous to our health?
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only list out their is the standard, M.S.D.S. ( Material, Safety, Data, Sheet, )
https://www.msdsonline.com/msds-search
Jack
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i paid $20 for a gallon name brand lapidary oil. don't know what's in it, it doesn't say what the oil is. i'm told stay away from transmission oil since you cannot guarantee what's in it. even told to stay away from mineral oil too. just told it's mist is not healthy. i figure that if your going to use any oil do the research. if unsure don't buy or use it until you do know. there will always be people telling you what they think is good or not. do the research and always always keep safety i mind.
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The part about mist being unhealthy. Taking any sort of mist (maybe exception is natural water mist) or dust into your lungs is unhealthy. Of course the more toxic the mist the more dangerous. It is best to wear a mask at minimum and respirator is better if dealing with any oil mists, it all comes down to the particulate size of mist and whether the mask filters that size. Common filter such as 3m N95 masks are for dusts and may filter some bacteria however some oil mists are finer than that. Good ventilation in your work area is essential also.
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Thank you all for the good advice. It is obvious we all have opinions of what oils or fuel works best for us as individuals but I have gleaned from your comments that I need to start using mask and gloves. I assume letting the saw sit a bit after a cut should minimize the mist?
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This was a work around in my small 3rd car garage turned rock shop. I bought a wall mounted exhaust fan (not the same as ceiling exhaust for bathrooms - they are will not work vertically) which sucks the air out of the space above the saws. I then mounted some curtain rods hanging down from the ceiling around the saw and then hung the clear plastic shower curtains around the saws. I just slide them back when getting to the saws and leave them closed with the exhaust fan on while cutting. Not the most elegant situation but it helps. My friend put his saw on wheels and rolls it into the driveway when cutting. I put in some pics to show the hacked setup but for a small space it helps. The exhaust vent on the outside of the garage is a spring loaded louvre that only opens when the fan is running to keep down the chance of getting mice etc inside garage,
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that's a very nice set up you have there
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Some of those transformers have been on the pole a long time. But they supposedly stopped in 1977. For myself, I use Almag which has worked well for me for decades.
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Has anyone seen any written data on oils, fuels, etc from knowledgeable sources, that might indicate what is and is not dangerous to our health?
A current safety data sheet (SDS) from the material manufacturer will give you some of data you are looking for, but it has to be for the exact product. All motor oils are not created equal. The other limitation is that the manufacturer gives advice based on the intended use of the product. For example if the manufacturer thinks his hydraulic oil is going to be in a tank or in hoses where people cannot breathe the mist his is probably not going to talk about respiratory protection much. A challenge with used transformer oil is how well did they clean out the old PCB containing transformer before they put new oil in? Did they mix any back at the shop before the put it in the tank? There are still many PCB transformers out there today. A lot of companies are not changing them out until they fail.
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Some of those transformers have been on the pole a long time. But they supposedly stopped in 1977. For myself, I use Almag which has worked well for me for decades.
I don't understand why someone would take such a risk..?
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I don't know why they risk it. I've had one friend use transformer oil and end up with rashes up and down his arms. When he went back to Almag everything cleared up. Free sometimes has a huge cost. I can remember as a kid that they used to hand out free 4 packs of cigarettes to kids leaving HS.
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Still using horse laxative mineral oil here. I work outside so I can stand well back from the drop saw when it's working. I do get splattered but this stuff is supposed to be pretty safe to get on your skin. If it's approved for use with livestock, it's usually alright (generally speaking. I'm talking soap, mineral oil, etc. not the hormones/supplements. Don't touch those.) There isn't any way to do anything with livestock without risking getting covered in whatever you're working with. That said, there are new recommendations that the vapor not be breathed if at all possible. The quantity I would be exposed to, standing 10 feet away outside, is probably nil, but if I get interior space I'll be making one of those fancy shower curtain surrounds real quick.
Question tho- cross-contamination between saw and cabbing machine? I get trace amounts of oil in my cabbing water sometimes. Is this to be avoided at all costs, or just an unavoidable part of the process? Is there any risk to the wheels and machine from getting oil in the water on occasion?
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I have no experience with the laxative mineral oil. But I do use Almag which is close to Pella, which is close in oder to what Rio sells as cutting oil. I use it in all saws from 20 inch down to 4 inch. When cutting oil got real expensive, I added ballast rocks in the side of slab saws. That is when most people started trying alternatives. They tried everything from transformer oil, to citrus oil. But the blade manufacturers still recommended cutting oil. So did the large saw makers. If you are going to spend near 4 grand on a 20 inch saw, you can spring for the oil (especially where your health is concerned). But the only reason I use water in a saw is if the material I am cutting is very porous (like untreated turquoise). I use regular dish soap to remove oil and have no problems if I use warm water.
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I run the horse laxative in my 24" and my 12" slab saws. I get a bit of mist with the 12"... it is a Lortone ls12 and feeds a little fast for some of the tougher stones I usually just let it sit for a bit after the cut and the mist settles and does not get into my shop. I am with Irouckhound, any foreign material that gets into the lungs is not good.
That being said, many of us have spent our working lives breathing dust, fumes and many other toxic substances and are still ticking along.
Bottom line for me is minimize exposure, keep things cleaned up and most importantly, have fun!
Bill
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i paid $20 for a gallon name brand lapidary oil. don't know what's in it, it doesn't say what the oil is. i'm told stay away from transmission oil since you cannot guarantee what's in it. even told to stay away from mineral oil too. just told it's mist is not healthy. i figure that if your going to use any oil do the research. if unsure don't buy or use it until you do know. there will always be people telling you what they think is good or not. do the research and always always keep safety i mind.
Mary,
Mineral oil is baby oil. It's the same thing you put on your children, and if ingested, is just a laxative. Whoever told you it was bad is crazy. It's the healthiest choice out there. And it lasts forever, just drain and filter regularly and you can reuse over and over.... and it's NOT a hazardous waste product that requires special disposal. I buy from the same source at $12 gallon as already posted here. Also, I showed the price to my local vet supply and they started selling to me as the same price.
as far as the mist issue? yes I wait a minute or two, but I also learned years ago to add a little Bardahl Anti-smoke oil from the automotive store and it helps keep the mist down quite a bit.