Lapidaryforum.net
Rock Art => Knife Making => Topic started by: Titewad on August 06, 2018, 08:14:51 AM
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I've bought some premade knife blanks that I would like to attach stone scales to but the tutorials don't have answers to my questions.
1. Should I rough up the blank for better adhesion? They seem awfully smooth.
2. Will West System epoxy work? I have 105 resin and 207 hardener in stock.
3. Will JB Weld work? Also have in stock.
4. Are the slabs cut oversize, glued, and then ground?
5. Are soap and water good enough to clean the slabs? Or do I need something like alcohol.
6. Are my diamond wheels on cab machine going to have a problem with steel?
7. What's the shelf life of Loctite 325?
Thank you
Titewad
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Any good epoxy will work
Jb weld may rust when it gets wet
I clean the steel and the slab with acetone, gets rid of any oil
I rough up the slab and the steel with my moto tool and a sc burr
You doing fixed blade knife with bolsters. I fit the stone to the bolster trim the slab but let it hang over a little and grind to the steel. Sometimes it is a little hard to get rid I
Of the scratch’s in the steel. The steel is softer than most rocks, it has never damaged my diamond wheels or belts. It can leave a little metal residue on the belts that can show up on the stone if it is a little porous. Be careful grinding on the steel it will grind away pretty fast.
Micheal Hoover is the expert on knifes
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I did one knife without liners but will not do it again. Steel and agate have vastly different coefficients of expansion. After extended use in very hot and very cold environments the adhesive let go. I now use abs liners between the steel and the stone anywhere from .030 to .090 thick. I also use brass pins and or tubes through the assembly. That isn't really essential unless you intend to use it really hard but it looks more professional. I leave the slabs oversize except for the forward edge which cannot be finished after the fact. Steel will damage the diamond but with lots of water the effect is so small as to be negligible.
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Fixed blade, no bolsters. Just simple steak knives for starters. I picked blanks with straight handles.
What is abs and where do I get it?
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Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene. Any knifemaking supplier will have it. I believe plastic notebook covers are the same but I can't swear to it. If you only want to do one knife I would try some epoxy on that and see if it holds well.
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My plan is to make one for each Niece and Nephew for Christmas presents. That will be a dozen. Only bought three blanks in the first batch to find out if it's doable with some type of acceptable quality. Will be better than the coal I gave them when they were younger.
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Doesn't Michael still have his info on here with knife making tutorials??? Check out ....Oh I can't remember his name on here. Somebody help me out, senior moment. I think he has videos on it too.
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Redrummd :icon_sunny:
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You can go to micheals website and I think he has some tutorials on there.
I have no problem with the epoxy. Just need to make sure that everything is clean and no oil. I have a pocket knife that I carry and use. It’s been in my pocket for several years and I have had no problems. Wyoming jade
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Here's the link:
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/content/knife-related-projects-tutorials/mike-hoovers-art-in-stone-the-basics/
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I like like using blanks with bolsters. It is easier to have something to grind to. I do a set of 6 steak knifes from small hunting knife blanks worked great.
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Hey thanks for the assist to my bad memory about Michaels name guys!!!
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Have put the Michaels website in my Favorites list. Will take some time to get through it. Will post pics when the knives get done. It's going to be a while. See you then.
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I did one knife without liners but will not do it again. Steel and agate have vastly different coefficients of expansion. After extended use in very hot and very cold environments the adhesive let go. I now use abs liners between the steel and the stone anywhere from .030 to .090 thick. I also use brass pins and or tubes through the assembly. That isn't really essential unless you intend to use it really hard but it looks more professional. I leave the slabs oversize except for the forward edge which cannot be finished after the fact. Steel will damage the diamond but with lots of water the effect is so small as to be negligible.
Locktite 325 is flexible and allows for the different expansion rates of metal and stone.
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I keep saying that I am going to try the 325. How much time do you have before it sets up. I know that went it is set up you can’t break it off
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I know Michael has much more experience with 325 especially since he recommended that I use it originally. I used it on my first folder that didn't have a rear bolster and the lack of that 2nd bolster was the reason he said to use it and I agree it is perfect for those situations. The setup time for me was about 5 seconds max but probably closer to 3 secs and it was locked in. I think, since it uses a catalyst that if you were to let the catalyst dry more than I did the working time would be higher. When I sprayed the catalyst on the scales I let then sit for about a minute before joining but this left the catalyst still a bit wet and may have caused my quick set time.
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I will say that once the 325 "grabs" it is game over for moving the scale so you have to move fast and get it right. The good news is if you maintain everything oil free (I wear nitrile gloves) you should never have a scale failure. I have done over 2,800 knives with this adhesive and ZERO have come back to be re-attached. You need to discard it once you get 3 months past the expiration date. I have had a few in shop failures and every time it was with expired 325. zoro.com has been reliable for shipping non-expired 325. Don't even think about Ebay - I did early on and at least 70% of the bottles I was shipped were expired 325 or the expiration date section of the label was cut off.
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I googled Loctite 325 and it says: Single component with 24 hr. cure time. What is this catalyst that you use? And does the 325 work all by itself without failures?
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Without going out to the garage to check I think the kicker was 7075 and comes in a small spray can.
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Loctite 325 Speedbonder structural adhesive is a high temperature, two step acrylic, no mixing required transparent brown adhesive. Loctite 325 is solvent resistant and, when used in conjunction with Loctite Primer 7075, forms flexible bonds on gaps up to 0.04 Inch.
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So I do lapidary and knifes, I don't see them as being a good mix. Why do I want a slippery breakable scale on my knife? help me out here. Vic
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Same reason someone would want a lladro porcelain figurine for the looks, rarity, elegance. Why pull an ugly plastic handle pocket knife out when I can bring out a beautiful Dino bone handle knife or something similar. You make the knives based on use just like you would with regular knife production. If someone is planning on being a survivalist with it and using it as a hammer/Axe/thowing weapon then obviously direct them towards something that will stand up to the abuse. If you have a business person who is looking some the finer things in life and is either buying it as a collector or will treat the knife with respect then it is perfect to make a blade with elegant unique scales of stone. There are plenty of stone offerings that put up with daily use on a knife without breaking or failure. Stones like Durmorierite and Jade take a huge amount of abuse without fail. If you put Lapis or Dino on the blade then the buyer should be told that the knife is make with material that won't handle severe use. They is a place for both types of knives. I guarantee that Michael's customers are not disappointed in their choice. I have been carrying a Dino bone handled pocket knife for over 2 years and use it regularly to cut twigs, small branches and other odd jobs without any problem.
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My knives are used in many kitchens every night - In fact one done with Dinosaur Gem Bone. My wife and I use a Jade set every day.
These sets are all in prominent display when in use and after cleaning as true art that can be used. In fact there were 47 Jade artists who had works accepted for the World Wide Jade Symposium in 2014. I was the only utilitarian artist whose work was displayed.
In fact, I have now finished over 2,900 knives and I have never had one returned for a scale coming off. I can only think of two who broke scales in drops out of all the knives finished so far and those both did not have a rear bolster. Another broke a scale trying to take it off a switchblade. He was trying to put in a stronger spring..... :dontknow:
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Have completed the first knife and have three comments to make.
1. Spectacular.
2. Picture doesn't do it justice.
3. Everyone that sees it, wants one.
Now I've got a dozen more to go. Also found out about a quarry south of here that has Wisconsin Jade. I need some.
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Very nice. You did a great job on your first one! :WEEEE:
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Micheal, could you use the 325 without the speed bonder, I am not in a rush to start grinding. It can wait 24 hrs or more. The one I am working in snow I glued the scales on s week before I started work on it
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Nope....
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Nice knife, looks great.