Lapidaryforum.net
General Category => Photography => Topic started by: cobbledstones on October 20, 2015, 08:26:05 AM
-
love seeing everyone's clean photos of stones, but I am having a hard time replicating. I have no fancy photo equipment, just a point and shoot. I have no light tent or special flashes or polarizing lenses. This is what I have tried (example cab, pardon the scratches, it will get re-polished)
outdoor light on a cloudy day:
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/fa7eee25-2a08-4f6f-9b80-b4bf6e8e4358.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/fa7eee25-2a08-4f6f-9b80-b4bf6e8e4358.jpg.html)
Analysis: shot demonstrates that the cab has a polish, I can see my camera in the reflection, and the lines of reflection are distracting and detract from the pattern in the stone. Same problems happen if I shoot indoors next to a big bay window with white shades
Outdoor light sunny day, direct sun
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/IMG_0153.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/IMG_0153.jpg.html)
better, but the specular reflection on the bottom of the cab can wash out the colors. Still has some reflection problems, but they are less. Distracting shadow. Maybe this is the best I can do with my current (lack of) gear
white paper wrapped around and taped to the camera so that the paper can support the weight of the camera and lift it above the cab (a primitive light box), flash off. The paper didn't set flush with the leather background, causing the halo.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/IMG_0144.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/IMG_0144.jpg.html)
reflections minimal but still present, you can see the camera in the cab, but I think this would go away if I did a better job reducing the cracks that light can sneak through around the body of the camera. Cab looks 'flat', and the colors are strange, but it is an interesting effect.
Not sure what to do next, anyone have suggestions?
-
Check out Ajo's tutorial pinned on this board. You can rig up a light tent very cheaply. There are plans all over. Just Google home made light tent. I suck at photography, so can't offer any expert advice! :LOLOL:
-
There is a ringer on the forum. A very experienced superb studio photographer has joined the forum and says he can help us. He is a friend of mine and has extremely difficult health challenges , challenges beyond most peoples comprehension. I think he will eventually feel well enough to come to the rescue.
-
That is good news Frank , I can use the help. Been reading a lot on this subject.
Important factories, plain background as not to compete with the stone, white balance adjustment and difussed lighting. Also trying to take photos without the shadow also distracting from the stone. I know what needs to be done, but so far not very skilled at it.
-
excellent news frank, and my best wishes for your friend's recovery
I have read Ajo's tutorial, and it is helpful, but he starts at a point beyond where I am now. That is, his is an advanced set of techniques to make the background fade away and not distract, assuming you know how to take the photo of the foreground. I am still working on the latter.
I see how a light tent will get rid of shadows, this is logical and I will construct a more serious one than my paper box used above. The frustrating thing I have encountered is that what I do to remove shadows makes reflections worse, and what reduces reflections has made shadows worse.
-
Bouncing the light can get rid of reflections but you lose much of the light intensity. Professionals use dirct lighting that is polarized but those lights cost thosands each.
-
Hi everyone, I pop in now and again. I've been on the forum over a year. But not on very often because of 3 cute little monsters. I saw this topic on the new site, but in any case I have been a commercail photographer/web designer for over 20 years. I will help when i can, if interested... But i will not get in a land war over which camera is better. So if I can help I will.
Thanks
mike
-
But i will not get in a land war over which camera is better.
So are you a Canon or Nikon fan? :toothy10:
If theres one thing I've learned its that the equipment doesn't make the photographer. You can buy the best gear in the world and still take crappy photos. And you can give a gifted photographer a cheap point-n-shoot and they'll still produce fantastic images. I have decent gear and I continuously struggle to take nice photos while other friends of mine make it seem effortless.
-
Also, I've learned that taking good photos of cabachons is a very tricky thing. Reflections are a bitch. Even my light box hasn't solved all the problems.
-
I know I have been a camera reg for several companies, work for 2 top newspapers. It really comes down to what you originally started with and what you are comfortable with. I have not shot many cabs, but I was trained mostly in shooting glass and silver. I have few ideas I may try this weekend if they come out good I will share the results. I will try to keep it simple so any level photographer can do it.
Thanks Mike
P.s. 35mm canon, medium Hasseblad. :azn:
-
I wrote an article about taking photos of cabs in this month's Rock and Gem magazine. I just got my copy of the magazine today, page 32.
Bob
-
I might suggest this.
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/light.htm
-
P.s. 35mm canon, medium Hasseblad. :azn:
I'm Canon also. Its just what I started with 30 years ago when I got into photography. Made the transition to digital a little over 10 years ago and sold all but two of my film bodies, and I haven't loaded a roll in them for near a decade now. I don't have the highest end gear but I have a nice assortment of lenses and my most recent body was a Valentines gift from the wife this years, The Rebel T6s.
I would love to play with some medium format, especially shooting lightning storms which has always been a passion of mine. But I can't afford another hobby.
-
I know if I start another hobby, my dear wife might dis-own me and I don't seem to pick cheap ones.
-
love seeing everyone's clean photos of stones, but I am having a hard time replicating. I have no fancy photo equipment, just a point and shoot. I have no light tent or special flashes or polarizing lenses. This is what I have tried (example cab, pardon the scratches, it will get re-polished)
outdoor light on a cloudy day:
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/fa7eee25-2a08-4f6f-9b80-b4bf6e8e4358.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/fa7eee25-2a08-4f6f-9b80-b4bf6e8e4358.jpg.html)
Analysis: shot demonstrates that the cab has a polish, I can see my camera in the reflection, and the lines of reflection are distracting and detract from the pattern in the stone. Same problems happen if I shoot indoors next to a big bay window with white shades
Outdoor light sunny day, direct sun
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/IMG_0153.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/IMG_0153.jpg.html)
better, but the specular reflection on the bottom of the cab can wash out the colors. Still has some reflection problems, but they are less. Distracting shadow. Maybe this is the best I can do with my current (lack of) gear
white paper wrapped around and taped to the camera so that the paper can support the weight of the camera and lift it above the cab (a primitive light box), flash off. The paper didn't set flush with the leather background, causing the halo.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/simpsons_guest/IMG_0144.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/simpsons_guest/media/IMG_0144.jpg.html)
reflections minimal but still present, you can see the camera in the cab, but I think this would go away if I did a better job reducing the cracks that light can sneak through around the body of the camera. Cab looks 'flat', and the colors are strange, but it is an interesting effect.
Not sure what to do next, anyone have suggestions?
First I know this is an old post, but I would like to address the photo's. First I see three photos with thee different colors, most noticeable on the background color. This tells me that the white balance needs to be adjusted. The white balance should be adjusted for the light source you are using and it will help to keep the colors true.
Second the reflection of you and the camera, I ask this question have you ever seen photos of store front windows where people take pictures of what is in the store through a window display. A amateur taking this photo you will see their reflection in the window glass, a pro will stand far enough away from the window and will stand to the left or the right to where they don't see their reflection. This same principal can be applied to taking pictures of anything that is reflective.
I suggest to try this, after your white balance adjustment stand back 3-4 feet to the left or right of the cab take 3 pictures, point your camera to the left of the cab snap a photo, then take a center picture and lastly take a photo to the right of the cab, adjust as needed and once you find your sweet spot you will never see your camera refection ever again. When done crop to desire size.
Although you will see cloud's and whatever else but never your camera again. To make a cheap light diffuser use a 1 gallon milk jug
Well got to go to a BB&Q
good luck
Cheers
-
messofrocks, your anti-reflection "fix" will work well if you're shooting with a long lens. But most of my cab shots are made in macro mode with an old Nikon 4500, at most a few inches from the subject. Do you have a work-around for that? I just don't have physical space for a long lens set-up even though I have a Canon Rebel with a 105 mm. macro lens.
Even close-up I've noticed a cab's dome height has a bearing on the amount of reflection shown. I was shooting some Crown of Silver psilomelane cabs a few days ago -- talk about reflective! I found that with careful positioning I could get virtually reflection-free shots on nearly flat-topped cabs while those with high domes drove me nuts with "camera shadow." See below.
The best method I've found so far involves cutting a lens-size hole in a white index card or similar material and placing it around the lens while shooting. But that still results in a round black shadow with most materials. If you can't beat 'em join 'em. I've learned to appreciate some amount of reflection as long as it doesn't overwhelm the images.
-
Gemfeller
I’m going to assume that is digital and not the film version Rebel camera with a 105mm otherwise it will cost to much to be snap happy.
If it is the digital Rebel similar to mine with 105mm lens with F/1.4 stop and that being the case, your lens has greater capabilities to go from 24-105mm with macro. Macro is great for taking picture of bees, flowers and flies and many other cool things like a water drop to stamps. Macro can also be great for cabs once you know how but either way your 105mm should be able to handle a range of zoom from 24 to 105 ranges even in macro.
On the other hand, might you have the Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 with the 1.6-foot macro focal distance, which is the closes you can get to something, and still be able to focus. Or maybe the 35-105 no matter what still move the camera left, which I prefer or right as long as you can still see the object in the viewfinder or screen you can still snap a nice picture. My camera and lens can also select the focal area and if your lens is anything like mine, you have the same ability if need switch auto focus to manual.
Also remember pending your picture resolution 2 Meg pixel on up that picture could be huge poster size in fact. You can stand a few feet away zoom obtaining a great picture and then crop it to size.
The pictures below are of the most reflective thing I can find to illustrate the principal, all in macro but no special care was taken. Meaning no white balance adjustment and very poor lighting, did not care if in focus or not, anyhow, notice the left and right pictures compared to head-on. Left and right does not need to be to the extreme as I show in the photos it just has to be enough to make you and the camera fade away.
In this case, I held the camera 3 to 4 feet away from the object with minimum zoom; I cropped the picture (had too) and I still had to resize it down to 30 percent so it does not take up to much space.
The light switch in the garage I was standing 10 feet away normal auto setting and zoom the screws are smaller than most cabs.
Question: The background to that killer stone was it gray or white? Remember when taking photos and you change light, you should always do a white balance adjustment. I did white balance on your photos best as I could to show a little difference in effect what white balance can do.
-
messofrocks,
Those are great suggestions. The camera’s a Canon digital EOS Rebel Xsi. The lens is an EX Sigma 105 mm. F2.8 DG Macro with AF but it doesn’t have optical stabilization, making hand-holding in macro pretty chancey. Both are in virtually brand new condition but I find the arrangement unwieldy to use in my very limited space. I really don’t know the macro focal distance of the Sigma; I’ll have to check. (Looks like it’s 4.8 inches at 122 mm. for 1 to 1.) I understand your comments about cropping down distance shots with 12.2 MP. You’re comments are tempting me to give the system another try even though the learning curve makes my head hurt in advance.
I’ve operated an image-heavy gemstone sales website for over 10 years and it has a voracious appetite for images. I haven’t been able to maintain it adequately the past couple of years due to serious illness but I’m getting better now. I’m looking forward to bringing it up to speed again in the next few months along with a couple of other web-based sales options, all of which will require lots of images.
Bottom line: My Nikon photo system has worked very well for a long time. It allows me to make lots of images fairly quickly and efficiently over a wide range of subjects: transparent faceted gems, opals, fire agates, many other types of cabochons, faceting rough, slabs and jewelry etc. without major equipment adjustments and lots of fiddling around. My shots may not satisfy everyone’s notion of what a “good” image is but there’s a world of room for disagreement on that topic, starting with their intended use.
I know a lot more about gems/gemology/lapidary than about technical photography. If I’d realized in advance how difficult gem photography, especially faceted stones, was going to be I doubt I’d ever have launched my website. But once committed I soldiered on despite many mistakes and frustrations along the way. Even after all this time I learn new things each time I settle in for a shooting session. I guess my philosophy comes down to Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS).
You asked what color the background was for the psilomelane shots and suggested I check my white balance. I check white balance for EVERY shot (unless I forget, of course, which happens more often than I’d like as I age.) The background is an 18% gray jewelry pad and something happened when I uploaded to the Forum, making the backgrounds appear to be different. I checked my image archive and they seem identical in the originals. I can’t explain why there’s a difference on the Forum. The first “shadowless” image is color-correct.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time for your informative post. BTW, I never use flash. Most of my shots are made with natural daylight but I also use white-balanced incandescent and occasionally halogen.
-
Yeah in some cases, it is a simple point and shoot, in past all we worried about was redeye. In addition, what is hard for some to understand with digital the picture does not always have to be centered or wait for the right lighting condition because you can always crop to center and adjust the colors.
Nevertheless, there comes a time where you want to take a picture of a reflective surface such as of a crystal clear lake with the snow cap mountains in the background without seeing the camera in the photo which it is never easy. The fact is sometimes you have to snap hundreds or even thousands of shots attempting to capture that one awesome photo. The best all we can do to better our odds is to use a controlled environment, opposed to a natural setting.
Therefore, if you want to take and continue to take consistent pictures you need a controlled environment. A light box, with proper lighting, a camera tripod and lens but don’t be fooled with a tripod because if you have to push the button you can still take fuzzy pictures. The best thing to use with a tripod is a remote switch or set the timer so you are not touching the camera when it snaps, sure stabilizer are nice but not always faultless.
Hey LOL glad to hear the background was gray I was thinking I was loosing it; also, what you see on your screen is not the same what I see because our monitors are calibrated differently. I attached a few photos that are designed for calibrating; I have the hard copy of it, which is great to calibrate digital cameras.
I know I push the white balance but there is no need to keep doing a white a balance, you just need to save one of each to the camera. On an overcast day take your white background outside do a balance and save it to the camera, do this for a sunny day as well plus don’t forget one for when you are standing in a shaded area and pending the room lighting in your home a white balance saved to your camera is helpful. Once you save these to camera, all you have to do is select it for the condition you are shooting in then if need be a plus or minus 1 or 2 if you are looking for perfection.
Wow, I checkout your Nikon an oldie but a goodie eh I remember those now almost bought one but instead I went with canon 4 mega pixel with the flip out screen. Now like you I also have the Xsi and the Xti LOL I killed my 105mm lens the other day I was setting up to run a few test with it but dropped and killed it. Anyhow, the photos I took of the phone is highly reflective and the only thing I had to demonstrate the left and right shift even with a flash same principal applies without a flash.
Either way it sounds like you are on the ball using your Nikon to maximum benefit the only other thing I can suggest are tilt and angle position to remove the undesired reflection/s.
Sorry to hear you have not been well, but glad to hear you are recovering my prayers and blessing are with you.
Best of luck
PS it would not allow me to post the full resolution of the attached photos oh well maybe it is enough to test your screen with anyway right click and save the white should be true white and the shading between 18, 19 and 20 you should see a separation from the whites to the black etc..
-
Long pause...
messofrocks, I remembered I had a long(er) lens for my Nikon and dug it out of storage to try your cab imaging technique. So far no cigar.
This image was made at about 15-inches lens-to-subject using available light inside a light tent. As you can see the lens body is reflected off the high polish of the cab. Does your method only work with flash? I can't yet figure out a way to shoot from the side without skewing the image.
-
But i will not get in a land war over which camera is better.
So are you a Canon or Nikon fan? :toothy10:
Me i like Nikon but i cant buy 1 they cost to much. :LOLOL:
I hope one day to get a Nikon 7000 But for now its a dream.
-
My biggest advice is with any camera system. They all have cheap to expensive models from canon, nikon, hassleblad the biggest thing with the expensive models are speed and more features than even professionals use. So unless you are constantly shooting sports or race cars, you need the cameras that shoot 500 frames a second. (rocks and stones do not move fast, unless you through them) 2nd cameras with 100 different modes are fine, but I have been shooting commercially for over 20 + years and I use 2 modes on my camera AV and manual. I have spent thousands on on 1 camera or another over the years, but there are plenty of camera in the $400 to 500 range that would be more than most will ever need. Save your money for lenses. I shoot canon and hassleblad, because my first camera was a canon. Nikons are great to. Sensor size and megapixels are the most important features.
-
Nobody has mentioned the use of a circular polarizer to reduce reflections with a digital camera. Why is that?
Jerry
-
Nobody has mentioned the use of a circular polarizer to reduce reflections with a digital camera. Why is that?
Jerry
I use one for regular shots. Didn't think to mention it. It helps but it's not the magic bullet all by itself.
-
I also use a circular polarizer. There is almost always one attached to my lens when out shooting scenery. But as gemfeller said, its no magic bullet. Still can be helpful though.