Lapidaryforum.net
Gadgets, Gizmos, and Dohickeys => Cutting, Grinding, Polishing => Topic started by: claymoreminer on June 12, 2016, 10:54:55 AM
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I am in the market for a new 18" diamond blade for my Great Western rock saw and am wondering about the advantages/disadvantages of a sintered vs. notched blade. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Am looking forward to hearing what others say, but I kinda' like the segmented rim blades with the deeper slots to carry more oil through the cut. I use them on our 10" saws, but switch to a 303 for some types of rough.
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As a hobbyist my experience has been.
Notched, cheap, rough cut, excessively loud, short life.
Sintered, more expensive, smooth cut, quieter and longer life.
I would like a professionals view. :icon_scratch:
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I've only tried one sintered blade so my knowledge is very limited. The blade I have cuts extremely slowly but leaves a polished surface. I can take a nodule straight from the saw to the polishing wheel. Still, I almost never use it as I don't have the patience to wait all day for the pressure fed saw to finish the cut.
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I love sintered blades. That being said I use a 303 notched rim on my 18 inch saw because I have never seen a reasonably priced 18 inch sintered blade. Have you found a supplier for quality 18 inch sintered blades? I would be interested in trying one. Neal
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Good morning Neil -
Thanks for your input on notched vs. sintered blades - I have found a 18" sintered blade for $215.00 thru Johnson Bros Lapidary. Blade is made in Korea not China. Sounds like a good deal.
Clay
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On my 16" saw I'm using a BD 303 S blade. Very smooth cutting. The slotted blades do a very good job oc carrying oil to the cut & rock snot away from the cut.
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Seems to be a little confusion with terminology. "Sintered" blades have diamond in a matrix that is welded to the blade core. Sintered can also be the old notched rim (HP, BD, Star Diamond) where diamond mixture was brushed over notches, notches rolled over, and mixture fused (sintered) into the mild steel core with a lot of heat. The BD/MK 303C and 303S are both sintered. The 16" and larger size (303S) are "segmented". The rim sections are segments welded to a slotted core. Still sintered just quieter and cools better. The Chinese make "crimp rim" blades that are generally durable but noisy and not necessarily smooth cutters. Don't know how they make them.
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Terminology.... Many of us refer to "sintered blades" as being a continuous sintered rim all the way around the rim. I realize that is not the definition. Anyway, I refer to notched rims as such, and others with blades that are not notched or sintered as the old standard blade. Continuous sintered rim blades of high quality are quiet, smooth and last a long time if you take care of them. I have never seen a reasonably priced continuous sintered rim blade over 16 inches. They do make them primarily for the science people who have unlimited budgets..... So, the 303 blades, notched and sintered over 16 inches is a good choice. Neal
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Then there are the 301 blades. They are basically 303C (continuous rim) with 20-25% taller rim and "wedge shaped, notch like segments" around rim. More expensive but generally handle really hard rock even better than 303's. The original 301 blades were the red painted notch rims. If you can find one of those they were great blades too. Some suppliers still have them around from either old stock or bought at discount when discontinued. I bought most of the remaining blades after the big guys bought but sold everything at Buena Vista show that year. Wish I would have saved a few for myself.
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Looks like the 301 might be a good blade for a 14" drop saw. Might cut a little quicker. Wish they made a segmented 303 in 14". Anyone have recommendations for a good segmented 14"?
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I have used both extensively and I vote 100% for continuous rim sintered for smaller saws thru 12" and sintered/segmented blades on 14 and up. The cut is the difference! When you take a slab off from an 18" sintered it looks like it has been flat lapped to 600 grit.
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305 Agate Kutter has laser cuts around a very tall rim. Pretty thick blade so not cheap but thick sometimes better for drop saws as they won't deflect while chopping.
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I guess I will add that often the sintered blades come at a cost of kerf and with high end material sometimes the extra loss per cut can drive people to use a thinner notched type blade. Different discussion though in material cost vs quality of cut.
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Thanks John. Hadn't heard any recommendations for the 305 before. Only .010" thicker than the 303C, a segmented rim, and not that much more expensive than the 303. Sounds like a good choice.
The 225 Hot Dog is the one I use for some kinds of rough on the 10" saws. The Agate Kutter sounds like it might do a little better on harder materials. Could it possibly have more diamond or some other advantage over the Hot Dog's construction? They look very similar.
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If you promise not to tell (this is insider information) the BD305 Agate Kutter is the MK Hot Dog. So many people are using high speed water cooled tile and masonry saws for rocks they wanted a blade that worked well under those conditions. I have only used the 10" 305 myself. I tried a lot of different blades on my drop saw (formerly the Gy-Roc Preformer). My all time favorite blade is the 301. Trimming slabs on my saw with 301 is comparable to trimming on my MK145 4" tile saw (1/2 hp, 5500 rpm). Shove it through and smooth cuts. When I tried chopping down through a 3" rock the .040" 301 wanted to deflect and stall motor. 305 sailed right through with no deflection although with the extra thickness it did not trim slabs as fast as 301. 305 gives same smooth cut as 301 and 303. Rim is significantly taller. Club workshops are buying a lot of 305's as thick is only thing that holds up to abusive club members.
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Thank you, John. The MK225 Hot Dog works pretty well on our 10" saws, so I have to believe the extra oil carried by the segmented blade would help the 14" drop saw.
Some "dirty" stones build up a little sludge in the kerf with the 303, and in my mind that's just like driller's mud that's used to lubricate drill steel. It seems to stick to the rim of the blade, not allowing a clean diamond surface to get to the stone. Slows down the cut, but cuts good again if I clean the blade rim and flush the kerf.
Am using the old LS14. Might have to finally do some modifications to it, but I'll give the 305 a go first.
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Just got back from the "Agate Expo" Highland Park has a new blade, segmented , sintered, 18" for $195.00
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How thick is the HP blade? The blades I've seen before were really thick.
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The HP 18" blade is .085 kerf. Price is $190.00
http://www.hplapidary.com/c/174/highland-park-segmented-blades
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That's an improvement. They were selling green blades that looked to be 1/2" thick.
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Yes they still have them and he said they sell a lot of them. They made the new Black line to compete with the 303 series etc. Close up it looked like it was well made. They had them made in China to their specifications for the harder materials. The Green ones did not look very even. The diamond inserts are longer rectangles set in vertically on the Green ones. On the Black the segments are normal.
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As long as I don't cut polychrome jasper I am OK with my plain Chinese green 16" blade on my Covington 16" slab saw. This is a segmented blade so less expensive and doesn't last as long.
I like the MK lines also for my 6" and 10" saws.
Also check out my method of bushing blades to different sized arbors.
This idea solves the old problem of thin bushings falling out of the hole in the blade. This works when you use standard flange type washers to secure your blades. Each flange has an indentation and you match the thickness of the bushing so it makes contact with the inner flange surfaces at the same time the outer flange edge is tightened to the blade. So the bushing sticks out slightly on both sides of the blade and can't fall out.
This method has solved all my bushing issues forever.
(http://www.zbestvalue.com/Bushings/bushing1.JPG)
(http://www.zbestvalue.com/Bushings/bushing2.JPG)
(http://www.zbestvalue.com/Bushings/bushing3.JPG)
(http://www.zbestvalue.com/Bushings/flange-with-indentation-labeled.jpg)
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I've never tried plastic wheel bushings in saw blades. The brass blade bushings can be kept in place by inserting bushing in blade hole and using a center punch (or big nail) ding the contact point of blade to bushing in 4 or 5 places. I have used the shims inside the flange washer for small thin blades before.
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When I built my custom machine a while back I bought a cheapo "mean green" blade for the 8" trim saw portion. It worked ok but its finally worn out. I decided to try the BD303c this time, just ordered it from John yesterday. Went for the thin kerf (.025) because no one else uses my machine and I'm not worried about it being damaged. I will report on its performance.