Lapidaryforum.net
Gadgets, Gizmos, and Dohickeys => Fixing, Modifying and Refurbishing your Lapidary Equipment => Topic started by: Kaljaia on July 25, 2016, 09:00:53 AM
-
Yesterday, I acquired a rock saw.
It will not be in my possession until end of August, as it's in the care of my parents who picked it up from a friend on their way through eastern Washington yesterday. It's probably (more than) twice my age, but three years ago I saw it running fine. I purchased a cabbing machine with it, of unknown age/quality/order, and though I may have paid more than the machines were worth I know I probably paid less than the owners needed for them (and would have paid more, if they would have accepted it). They were owned by a dear friend and adopted grandfather who used them to cut and polish a thunder egg for me when I was about six years old. He took my brother and I rock hunting in the sagebrush in Eastern Washington every summer for years when we were little. He and his wife are now in their mid-90's and still going strong, if not quite up to working rock anymore! Unfortunately I cannot go to him for help with the machine, as his memory of its use isn't quite what it was.
At this time I don't have make/model info but am working on acquiring it. It's water-cooled but has been on the east side and dry for a very long time. I'll be using it in Eastern Oregon and am not too worried about rust due to the very low humidity here. I would greatly appreciate any advice/knowledge/tips about using this piece of equipment and will post more once I have it with me in August.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4c27b43ecc1ad831a83724be07ec8edc/tumblr_oavo99pRqm1spns93o1_1280.jpg)
-
Looks like a lortone drop saw. There isn't much to go wrong with them. When you get give it a run and see how it goes.
-
Jhon is spot on with the lortone, should be a 14" drop, I have the same model. some tips: I put small filter around the pickup on the bottom of the oil pump in the back left. It sits in an almost isolated box in the saw and the crud tends to build up and the pump gets slower. the filter keeps the crud out of the intake. Although I didn't do it with my lortone 14" drop I have seen people drill and plumb an outlet line for the oil and let it drain to a sump below the saw and then move the pump from the back left to the top of the oil in the sump which will keep cleaner oil on the cut and the gunk won't clog the the oil feed lines going to the blade. Keeping it in the saw I have had to clean or replace the feed lines when they get clogged and the oil flow diminishes.
It is a good saw the only thing I dislike is the amount of time you have to hold the blade on the entry cut to keep from having the blade deflect on an uneven surface. I also added a 2nd higher sheet to the front and sides of the saw to keep the oil spray from getting every where if cutting a larger piece. I finally just draped a piece of plastic tarp over the blade front and clipped it on with small utility finger clamps and that really stopped the mess.
Overall a solid saw and good workhorse. It also originally came with a sheet of metal with the blade slit in it that fits the base of the opening at the bottom of the drop forming a table that with the blade fully down allows you to trim material by hand.
-
You just got a good intro to your new saw. Congratulations. I've used *but no owned* this model and its worst feature is having to lift the saw out of the tray to clean it. Depending on what you cut and how hard you work it, I'd use a stiffer blade (303 vs 301) than I might if it was not a drop saw. I also like to take a bit of weight (pressure) of the blade as it nears the end of the cut to avoid or reduce the breakoff nib. Being a saw that only advances when it cuts, it tends to cut very slowly when the blade is dull, and rapidly when the blade is sharp or the rock is soft. Gravity and friction at play. Enjoy the saw. Its not so vintage that you cant buy a similar one today. And indeed there is n't much that can go wrong with it that can't be fixed.
-
It is indeed a Lotrone LS-14 Drop Saw. I've refurbed many of them, built a few new ones (Lortone stopped making them about 20 years ago), and used them since the mid 70's. If you want the manual, let me know via PM and I'll email you a copy.
Everyone made some very good points in the posts above, the best being to drill a drain hole and use an external sump. If you do, you'll only have to clean it every year or two, instead of every couple weeks of regular use. Can send you pics of that mod too if you want. They are excellent units, faster than an autofeed, solidly built and last a long time if used properly. If you were closer, I'd give you an hour intro and you'd be set. Easy saw to use.
Here's a YouTube video of one running. Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCjc_ZF0dfM
-
I haven't used a drop saw but If you have room in the tray you can make a cascade filter without drilling a hole by putting your pump pickup in a box so that oil must run over the top into the pickup area. No holes, no filter required.
-
Happy to see you getting the LS14. Good saw for sure. Ours sits in a plastic washing machine pan with cheap shower curtain hanging from a pvc pipe frame. That catches a fair amount of splattered oil.
One of our club members uses a jack to lift his out for cleaning. That is the biggest hassle with this saw.
-
Thank you all for the great advice! I would love to get a copy of the manual, Phil, and a photo of your mod. It sounds like the hassle of cleaning the saw is the only real drawback.
Steve, thanks for the tip about the oil lines and getting gunk in them. I'll follow your advice and put in a filter if there isn't one already.
I was under the impression it was a water-cooled saw but I haven't seen it in action for a few years, so knowing the make/model and that it's oil-cooled is appreciated. Is mineral oil too thick to use? If so, is there an alternate, easy-to-acquire non-toxic alternative? I'll be using it in outdoor public space. (Gotta go buy another rolling cart now, lol) I like the shower curtain idea. I'll see about rigging up something like that on the cart.
-
I had what looked like a home made copy of that saw. It worked well but I used water soluble coolant and mostly for softer stones and stones subject to oil staining. I couldn't imagine using oil if it throws coolant to both sides like mine did. I would think you would have oil misting issue too.
-
This is the polishing unit that came with the saw. No motor and I am guessing home-made, but not sure. I haven't seen the unit in person in almost twenty years and didn't get a chance to look at it when I was looking at the saw a few years back. I think it'll need some TLC but it's a place to start!
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/06f1e861d88594d73ecd43fd820e55fd/tumblr_oaxvocYcwH1spns93o1_1280.jpg)
-
This looks a lot like an old Lortone SA-8 cabbing/polishing set up I used to have. My experience was it was a solid workhorse.
It has been a while back... maybe 40 years or so! :dontknow:
Bill
-
Oh boy - I'd also love to have a copy of the actual manual for the LS14. Couldn't find one anywhere... .
-
Lortone LS14 operating manual . http://www.lortone.com/pdf/LS14_Instructions.pdf
And Mineral oil is perfect!
Will try and get photos of oil set up tomorrow.
-
Happy to see you getting the LS14. Good saw for sure. Ours sits in a plastic washing machine pan with cheap shower curtain hanging from a pvc pipe frame. That catches a fair amount of splattered oil.
Can you post pic of your pan/curtain setup? thanks!
-
Here's the setup for the curtain/pan. Pan came from Lowe's, but has reclaimed enough oil to pay for itself. Cheap shower curtains cut off with excess used for the top.
This frame is mounted to the underside of cabinets, but freestanding frame wouldn't be too difficult to build. Pan has ribs in the bottom to allow oil to move under saw pan, and has a spot molded into it for drain plug. That should allow for external sump hose to be used.
-
Vince, that is almost erotic! :laughing4:
-
That's a great setup! I'll be duplicating that, if you don't mind, on a rolling utility cart.
-
Yeah, the rolling cart should make it even easier. Some light gage angle attached to the cart to hang the "rods" on would be perfect.
-
Cool. Thanks. Here are 2 pics of my external drain/pump setups. one is frm the newly refurbed LS-14 and uses oil, the other from my old Raytech polisher for water drain and also fresh water pump supply
-
Nice setup Phil. Is that one of the pumps from John at JS Gems? Speaking of Raytech, in the background of one of the saw curtain pics is an old Raytech 6" trim saw. It was our first saw larger than 4" (except for the Inland) and it also has a home-made spray shield.
-
No, not from john. The pump you can see is a fountain pump from harbor freight. The pump you can't see is from the hardware store, it's an evaporative cooler pump. used them for many years. Only $20 each.
-
Yeah, evap cooler pump in our LS14. It pumps oil fine, but I have shied away from fountain (water) pumps for oil because I don't know of anyone who has used a fountain pump for oil. I wouldn't even consider one unless it was rated for several feet of lift using water. Would be afraid they'd be too wimpy for oil.
-
Agreed. that's why the one you see is for supplying clean water to the wheels. Can't beat a swamp cooler pump for the oil feeds. I use the 7000 size. Works extremely well. probably could get away with a smaller one, but... I like lots of oil on that blade. Don't get any misting and very little spraying, but when I do (odd angle on rock, etc) I simply stick a large piece of cardboard on the sides.... And I use Bardahl No Smoke to eliminate misting...
-
Ok, had a few minutes in-person with the saw before heading back to work, so here's more pictures. Everything with threads is pretty rusted. I believe kerosene was used as the coolant but I'm wondering if someone used water at some point too, for the amount of rust; for being kept in a basement in Eastern Washington for all its life, it's more rust than I would have expected. Dismantled everything I could in the 15 minutes I had in order to see what screws needed to be replaced. Working on that! The folks I bought the saw from have offered to throw in a new blade, so I need to tell them what to get. The blade seems fairly decent (the rock that was in the vice had been cut very nice, smooth and straight) but the saw arm was down and the blade was resting on the rock for probably 5+ years, so the blade is now slightly dished.
Motor turns fine! Low RPM and also low noise. Bearings are great. My dad's tossing in a few extra old swamp cooler pumps but the pump in it does run; just haven't tested it with fluid in it yet.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/9a0e500f32152a3e0ecd61ffce63750b/tumblr_od1d767mCW1spns93o2_1280.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/a8ba49089fa42a302eae2d6f21852c73/tumblr_od1d767mCW1spns93o4_1280.jpg)
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/f89b20ff525d35e7030607eb859ced63/tumblr_od1d767mCW1spns93o5_1280.jpg)
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/12bc6b4361667925572cfb9e474388d3/tumblr_od1d767mCW1spns93o6_1280.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/ca354077e7e5be61cd936518bb560e41/tumblr_od1d767mCW1spns93o1_1280.jpg)
As always, I appreciate advice!
The saw itself will arrive in Oregon end of next week; had to bring the small car this way this time, and parents are bringing it down when we swap cars. Ordering its rolling cart and I have the shower curtain, will need to get PVC next time I'm near a hardware store for the splash guard :)
-
Yours looks better than ours did when we got it. We got a pump like the one in your saw with a different piece of vintage equipment, so it's good to hear that yours still works well. Haven't used ours - it's just been a backup.
There's a thread on here about "Sintered vs. Notched Rim" blades - I think that's the right title - and the BD 305 was one of the better options. It will probably cost as much as the saw... .
-
Yeah I can't ask the folks I bought the saw from to pay me back all the money in the form of a blade! XD I'm going for the exact same blade, so affordable and from a company that will send it bushed to the correct diameter too, since MK is now all 1'' apparently and this needs a 3/4ths''. Blade is thick, but that's ok because I'm pretty well brand new to slab sawing and am going to be trying to cut all kinds of silly things. I'll wait on fancy blades for a bit!
Pump is roughly identical to a swamp cooler pump. I will probably end up replacing the tubing and if the pump won't pump mineral oil then it'll get swapped out.
-
Hi All
Does anyone know if they made a 12 inch drop saw? I have found none in my research. This Saturday I should be getting 1 that has been setting for over 25 years in a guys shed. It is for free I just have to drive about 60 miles to go get it. I am thinking it is the same saw that is being talked about here.
Bless
Shawn
-
Heh. The one we bought was listed as a 12". Looking at the photos before "buying-it-now" gave some hints it was bigger - and when got there to pick it up it was 14". Yours will probably be the same.
-
I'm the new guy around here! So hello all! I have recently acquired the exact same saw in prestige condition other than being very dusty, but no saw manual. Could I get a copy of the saw manual? I gladly would compensate for any costs. Thanks, Michael
-
I found the link, thank you !!!
-
Hi All
Happy dance all around :WEEEE: :occasion14: :notworthy: :icon_sunny: :icon_thumleft: :icon_thumright:
I could go on. Got the saw today and it is almost unused. It still has the origional blade and the pump works. It is missing the belt guard and the tubing that goes from the pump to the blade. That is all. I will go in the morning and get some tubing and some oil and it should be alive. I might clean it some. I took some Pic.
-
Good for you! Looks like another one of the Teel pumps there. Should be an additional plate for the bottom so you can use it like any ol' trim saw, and a sheet metal spray shield for the front. Even if you didn't get those you got a great saw there.
Did you mention what you had to pay for it? Don't have to tell if you don't want to, but if you find another one like that for any reasonable price snap it up!
-
Hi All
The good and the bad. First it was free and the pump worked. Also it had a blade. I am also glad that I did not try it in my shop. I took it to the other side for testing because I wondered if it would mist in my shop. That was good. I used compressed air to blow the dust off. Still good.
The bad :Bash: I bought 3 gal of mineral oil this morning and now most of it is soaking into the ground and I have a big mess. I put 1/2 gal. in it to test for leaks. After 30 min no leak and added the rest. Still no problem. Installed the pump and new tubing. Now it gets bad.
I started it up and the pump would not pump and it started leaking very bad. By the time I shut it down and figured out what the problem was I had lost most of the oil.
OK so there is a factory drain where the pump sets that is not showed in the manual so be looking for that if you get 1 of these saws.
Now I have to get a cap for the drain hole and try again. What a good thing and what a bummer. I must have 1 of the newest model.
Bless
Shawn
-
:LOLOL: If I get another saw I will remember you and put water in it to see if it leaks.
I can never find any free equipment. I must not have the right friends. At least they give me a rock sometimes.
-
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/68dfe1f19953e4bc252da81275a85b2b/tumblr_odu6p8Uj8M1spns93o1_540.jpg)
IT LIVES.
It works quite well.
I shelled out for a really good utility cart for it to live on, because non-permanent location and all. Perfect dimensions. Got it all put together, got the saw put together, got the mineral oil in it, all the pieces and screws cleaned and tight and fired it up! By that time the sun had set so I only got one little end bit knocked off a piece of purple jasper but the saw went through it like (comparatively) butter. The blade is old and a little warped but that didn't stop it from cutting. Pump works fine and moves the oil on through its tubes to both sides of the blade. Loud, but very little mess. I was prepared for trim-saw-level-oil-in-my-face but it was really not that bad. I may also not have enough oil in it, so need to check on that (has two gallons right now.)
Anyway I am pleased and will be very busy for a few evenings to come!
-
Woohoo! Happy to see that.
-
Hi All
So happy to hear that your saw is up and running :occasion14:
Sorry to say my saw is not. I got the drain problem fixed and fired it up. Now the impeller has fallen of the pump :angry:
I am getting ready to take it apart to see if I can fix it if not then I have to think of plan "B"
Again congrats on your saw and I will keep you updated on mine.
Bless
Shawn
-
Hi All
The pump is useless. Either it is a very bad design or some tried to make it work. Either way I am off to find an evaporative cooling pump. I already have a drain hole so the rest should be simple. Not so simple they are rated at 1 ft head height. Does that mean that they wont pump if the head height is 3 ft or is it just slower?
Bless
Shawn
-
Shawn,
I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble! Mine is basically a standard swamp cooler pump, so whatever goes in those these days should (theoretically) work. I have heard others talk of replacing their pumps with ones from Home Depot.
-
-.- reasonably certain I tanked whatever edge was left on that blade in cutting an extremely hard, fine-grain shiny black river rock. It went through the soft, somewhat porous river pet wood nicely though and I have a few small slabs of purple jasp-agate now! Pictures tomorrow when daylight.
-
Hi All
It is alive :icon_cheers: I got my pump in and with some rigging I was able to reduce the pump output down to 1/4 in. The bad is the blade is bent and there is a "bad" spot on it that causes it to jump. But what the heck it still will cut a slab and fast at that :occasion14:
Pic is of the new pump and the Rigging to make it work and it fits in the space where the origional pump went.
Bless
Shawn
-
Glad to hear it's working and looking forward to seeing what you cut!
-
Here's a new link to the LS14 instructions.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1783/4633/t/4/assets/LS14_Instructions.pdf?v=579751996051807529