Lapidaryforum.net
Gadgets, Gizmos, and Dohickeys => SAFETY => Topic started by: Greg Hiller on October 15, 2014, 06:15:49 AM
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...beyond the eye and cut/burned finger hazards?
I don't think anyone uses cadmium based solders anymore. I know about opal dust and casting investment (silicates danger for lungs). I know silver itself is not that dangerous (yes, I read the MSDS!...chemical engineer that I am). How about Tripoli and red rouge dust? What exactly are they? I'm now using something called 'Blue Hubble' (sounds like a gum flavor) for final polish on Argentium pieces. Anybody know what the stuff is?
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Greg, good to see you can post again! :hello2:
Silica dust from any stone that contains it (quartz, agates, opal, jaspers, etc.) is potentially bad to breath in. Cutting those stones under water is usually good enough to keep the dust down and out of the air. You do get mist from the machines that throws some of that dust in the air. Other stones like malachite, tiger eye, tiffany stone, etc. contain other things (asbestos, beryllium) that you don't want to be breathing in, so wear a mask when you cut those stones as well as gloves for some of them.
Soldering fumes are not good - make sure you have good ventilation when you solder. If you quench your work, quench in water first and then put it in the pickle pot. Quenching in pickle throws up other nasty fumes you don't want to be breathing in. Any polishing compound dust is bad for your lungs, no matter what it's made out of. If you don't have a polishing unit that has a filter system, always wear a mask or respirator, especially if you're using a flex shaft to polish and make sure you have good ventilation pulling the air away from your face.
Don't know what blue hubble is made out of -- just read about it myself on the Orchid list not that long ago. How does it work on polishing?
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Also, since soldering got mentioned, be careful to check those torches out! I apparently had some very small leaks in my oxygen hose for my micro-torch. It was used and inspected, but not carefully enough when I got it. I lit it up, the flame wasn't quite right, then it took off, sent me to the ER with what developed into a blister on my palm that completely covered the palm from beginnings of fingers to wrist. Took a month of daily debriding for it to start healing. Check those hoses! And if the flame doesn't appear quite right, close it all down.
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I say wear a mask no matter what stone you cut. Stone dust no matter what stone it is from can be toxic to your health in the long term.
Any of you remember Ralph from Stones That Rock? He recently died from complications of COPD from what I heard. Whether or not that was from stone dust I have no idea, but you want to take the precautions nevertheless. You only get one pair of lungs and breathing is NOT optional. G-d only gave us one pair of lungs, one pair of eyes, and two hands. Do whatever you can to protect them all.
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>Don't know what blue hubble is made out of -- just read about it myself on the Orchid list not that long ago. How does it work on polishing? <
I read about it there as well. I was getting annoyed as I would completely finish an Argentium piece, pack it away in a bag only later to find it had some small brown smudges on it, almost like tiny rust stains. They could be buffed out again, but not without going back the rouge wheel again.
I purchased some of the blue hubble from a musical instruments online store a few weeks ago. It was a little bit hard to initially get it to stick to the mulsin buff I was using, but it now seems to be coated pretty well. I think the polish is at least as good as I was getting with red rouge and I've not seen any of the brown spots appear on pieces, but I'm not sure enough time has passed to say that definitely.
When I'm cutting stones under water I hope that's enough. I have to wear a dust mask often enough in this hobby, really don't want to do it while cabbing.
Iceopals, very sorry to hear about the burn...I hope there was no permanent damage.
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Some of us old timers have worked with asbestos in the past and in very poor pre osha environments. It is frightening to think that we are adding even more risks with our hobby. I take more than reasonable precautions using a half mask with particulate filter when I think it is needed but an added risk we often do not think of is the ergonomic aspects of of work place.
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yea, like hauling 75# rocks around in the creek bed huh Frank, LOL
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Hmmm, blue bubble sounds interesting. Have to see if it works with other metals than argentium.
No permanent damage, just some conversation starting scars. :thumbsup:
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A lot of rock cutters end up with COPD because they aren't ventilating and protecting their lungs. I have mostly seen it develop in people who REALLY do a lot of volume cabbing and it can kill you, for sure. This would be one of the most dangerous hazards, in my mind.
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I'm glad I do most of my lapidary work outside! Usually a breeze blowing enough to control the rock dust and fumes from the oils when cutting......It is still a good idea to mask up though.....COPD is not nice or fun and many rockhounds get it.........
Another subject to bring up,is loose clothing around your machinery,A HUGE NO_NO!!!!!! Tuck it in! Button it up! Zip it up!
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Some of us old timers have worked with asbestos in the past and in very poor pre osha environments. It is frightening to think that we are adding even more risks with our hobby. I take more than reasonable precautions using a half mask with particulate filter when I think it is needed but an added risk we often do not think of is the ergonomic aspects of of work place.
Another old timer hazard was out of balance silicon carbide wheels exploding in your face. Not many use SC hard wheels anymore, but if you do, true up the wheel often, and spin the water out of it before you shut off your machine. An exploding grinding wheel is not a pretty sight. I've seen it happen to someone else. He ended up with 2 broken ribs, many lacerations, and me running for cover as pieces of the wheel flew around the shop.
Long hair is another hazard. Keep it tied back out of the way. Hair tangled in spinning wheels can at the very least leave you with a few bald spots. At the worst it can pull your face into the machine.
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Some of us old timers have worked with asbestos in the past and in very poor pre osha environments. It is frightening to think that we are adding even more risks with our hobby. I take more than reasonable precautions using a half mask with particulate filter when I think it is needed but an added risk we often do not think of is the ergonomic aspects of of work place.
Another old timer hazard was out of balance silicon carbide wheels exploding in your face. Not many use SC hard wheels anymore, but if you do, true up the wheel often, and spin the water out of it before you shut off your machine. An exploding grinding wheel is not a pretty sight. I've seen it happen to someone else. He ended up with 2 broken ribs, many lacerations, and me running for cover as pieces of the wheel flew around the shop.
Long hair is another hazard. Keep it tied back out of the way. Hair tangled in spinning wheels can at the very least leave you with a few bald spots. At the worst it can pull your face into the machine.
Rubber band the beard too.........
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Rubber band the beard too.........
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Only about 6" long Mike. Not worried about it yet. :LOLOL:
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Going Broke ...
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Cutting with water is not really enough. Here is how to prove it. Dust in the water becomes aerosolized and floats in the air like a thin fog. This is the extremely fine silicon particles that can cause the damage.
Take a clean piece of glass, a mirror or whatever. Place it near where you are cabbing and lay it flat. After a day of cabbing you will probably notice a nice thick film of rock dust. This dust is carried in the water that gets squirted onto your wheels.
However, I am going to make all my machines so they use a continuous flow of fresh water and the old water drains out the back of the cabbing machine. There will still be dust in the mist which will go in your lungs so I will still wear a mask. But it should cut it down considerably.
Two of my machines are already set up this way. For my Diamond Genie I will make new trays that slop towards a drain hole and put a water fill hose into it. This way it will drain the worst particle out but some silicon dust will still be getting thrown around by the grinding wheels. Neal
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Going broke for sure. But I think the potential for electric shock may rank right up there.
We work with our hands wet around electrically-powered machines. Most commercial units are designed with shock protection in mind but it's something to think about when doing work with home-brewed designs and unusual equipment arrangements for drilling, carving etc.
There are others here that know more about electrical hazards than me and I hope they'll chime in with their knowledge/experience.
Eye protection is another biggie for me. I got a small rock chunk in my eye while grinding a cab some years back. It caused a lot of problems and pain. I've also had small rotary disks explode while using my Foredom for metal work. The most dangerous IMO are the little silicon carbide disks that can be very handy for certain jobs but are fragile and easy to misalign leading to little pieces flying everywhere.
Fuel gas and oxygen connections are another concern. They should be checked fairly often with soapy water to ensure against leaks. Propane tanks used indoors can be dangerous because propane is heavier than air and accumulates near the floor unless ventilated. Overfilled tanks will vent during hot weather so safety people recommend that tanks be kept outside with the gas piped to the work area.
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Going broke for sure. But I think the potential for electric shock may rank right up there.
We work with our hands wet around electrically-powered machines. Most commercial units are designed with shock protection in mind but it's something to think about when doing work with home-brewed designs and unusual equipment arrangements for drilling, carving etc.
There are others here that know more about electrical hazards than me and I hope they'll chime in with their knowledge/experience.
Eye protection is another biggie for me. I got a small rock chunk in my eye while grinding a cab some years back. It caused a lot of problems and pain. I've also had small rotary disks explode while using my Foredom for metal work. The most dangerous IMO are the little silicon carbide disks that can be very handy for certain jobs but are fragile and easy to misalign leading to little pieces flying everywhere.
Fuel gas and oxygen connections are another concern. They should be checked fairly often with soapy water to ensure against leaks. Propane tanks used indoors can be dangerous because propane is heavier than air and accumulates near the floor unless ventilated. Overfilled tanks will vent during hot weather so safety people recommend that tanks be kept outside with the gas piped to the work area.
Indeed Electrical hazards are real. Some lapidary equipment is VERY old. I'm currently restoring a VERY old 20" saw. The electrical was not working when I got it. The wiring I removed was old fabric insulated wire. The insulation was broken down in several spots. This machine had been upgraded a couple times but that old wiring was still in use.
Be sure your equipment is properly grounded. If you get hooked up with 120V from a shorted motor, It could really ruin your widow's/widower's day.
Be sure you have GFCI protection for your equipment. Individual GFCI unit can be purchased to plug into your outlets or if you are capable you can install GFCI outlets.
BELT GUARDS! Why do most old pieces of lapidary equipment not have belt guards? Man! I've seen fingers that have run through a pulley! UGLY! For your sake and the sake of your friends, family and visitors, PUT BELT GUARDS ON YOUR EQUIPMENT! (Google images of fingers caught in pulleys. It will make your toes curl.)
Keep all of all your fingers. Some of us work with more dangerous tools, like table saws or circular saws or metal shears. I once worked with an old Englishman. Aubrey had been a machinist for 40 years and still had all of all his fingers. His advice to me? When you approach a machine that can potentially hurt you, STOP.... count your fingers and be sure you have all of all of them before you start and that awareness will help you have all of all of them when you are finished.
Rocks and rock equipment are HEAVY! Be careful how your lift and move heavy stuff. If you can't walk because you messed up your back, you can't play with rocks!
If you drop that beautiful 15 pound Brazilian agate on your toes, you will be hobbling for a while. That 15 pound rock is moving about 11 mph after falling 4 feet. That is over 81 joules of energy or about 58 foot pounds of force smashing your toes at 11 miles per hour. Broken toes will make you limp for weeks and it makes rockhounding much more difficult.
Don't let routine cause you to not be safe. " I've done it this way hundreds of times" But on the 101st time something goes wrong and your finger gets sucked in between a grinding stone and a tool rest. Make being safe a routine. Safe is much better than hurt!
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Sorry that I missed this thread earlier.
I'm extremely accident-prone, mostly because I am constantly changing glasses from short to long vision and it affects my depth perception. I'm legally blind a couple of times over without corrective lenses, but the upside is that I have extremely good vision up close, hence my nickname "the human loupe". A friend takes me with her to pick gemstones because I can see things like horsetail inclusions in garnets without a loupe.
So I take off my glasses to work on tiny things and sometimes forget to put goggles on. I stupidly was "just trying out" a new type of grinding stone in my Foredom and of course a chunk of it hit me in the eye. Goggles, people, or at least safety glasses! It took about a week for that to heal.
Inspect your belts on your grinding wheels. I didn't do this at my club's shop and a tear in the belt grabbed the large piece of jasper and my hand and pulled it into the machine. One finger was trapped on the bottom of the pan being pounded by a really sharp edge of the rock which was being pounded by the wheel. I panicked and didn't even think about turning the machine off. I couldn't pull my hand out so I finally decided to push. When I pulled out my hand I was even sure that the finger would still be attached. When I saw that it was my thought was "Good, the doctors can work with this". Many stitches and one broken finger. Two months before I could begin to bend it.
I've only gotten one third degree burn, and that was due to stupidity. Don't stick your hand in front of the flame; enough said.
You wouldn't think you could hurt yourself on a faceting machine, but I managed to a few months ago. I was trying to flatten a piece of plastic on a coarse lap and pressing too hard and slipped and abraded a significant amount of skin off my arm right above the wrist. That took about a month to heal.
Don't have your finger under a stone your drilling with a diamond drill bit, they drill you, too.
I'm sure I'll think of more later. I'm a walking OSHA violation. You should see what happens when I cook.
Debbie K
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Blue hubble
Light blue bars, consisting of aluminium oxide particles suspended in stearine, waxes and fats.
You can find the ingredients of any commercial compound by looking up the MSDS.
Tiger eye is a quartz replacement for asbestos and does not contain any particularly dangerous material.
I prefer to use a vacuum port at the back of my grinders as I find masks to be very uncomfortable.
I think the most dangerous thing for many hobbyists are the exposed drive belts on older rock saws.
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Never heard of Blue Hubble, but I'm sure most of us on here use Aluminum Oxide polishes sometimes.
Vacuum setup is a great idea. Have used fans - blowing toward the unit from one side and one on the other side blowing away - to pull mists and dust away. Bought two fans from an old air hockey table to make filter boxes. Haven't tested that yet.
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another hazard/concern would be the various types of oils used to cool our blades. some people i know use transformer fluid still others use mineral oil. i use an oil bought from the various rock shows around labeled "lapidary oil". don't know what it's made from. it is expensive. i bought it so i don't get sick. i'd really like to find a cheaper version. any ideas anyone.
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Gravity + Rock + Foot = Pain.
Don't drink and dig. Beer - Moonshine tractor fuel
Digging under a full moon.
Take off one glove for launch....An keep working.....digging with mouth shut!
Many time i have return to a dig to find.....Had i just dug a foot more. That was at Roger Mt. Oregon
Jack
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Transformer oil used for saws was a real bad one. Then there is acid used in pickle without a fume hood or ventilation. Polishing malachite with zam on a dry buff without good ventilation. Asbestos pipe wrap that lined flasks in investment casting. Putting too much metal in a spin casting machine. But the biggest problem is not enough water while grinding. Wear a plastic apron. If you see dust in the air, you are breathing it in.
Steve
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I recently got some obsidian that seemed to have a lot of volcanic dust on it. I really didn't like having it in my car because I was worried about inhaling whatever dust it was. Any thoughts? Does infrequent exposures pose a risk or could even a small amounts cause long term problems? Is the dirt and dust surrounding rocks a potential risk?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Important tip: If you get a donation or gift of "White Diamond" polishing compound and it looks really old, say thank you and then when they can't see you, just throw it away. They used to put asbestos in it. I think I read about this on the old forum, and since then have been tossing all the really old compounds that have come in to our club, many from members that are in their 80's. I think that they used asbestos in it until the 1980's.
Debbie K
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I broke a slab along a fracture line a few months ago with my bare hands and cut myself on an exposed sharp edge. I now wear gloves or wrap the slab in a cloth before doing this.
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collecting rocks in dangerous places.
Like the bases of cliffs. LOL! :coffee1:
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I have a couple from unfortunate first hand knowledge and these might be repeats but since they are real they bear repeating.
Partner when collecting: I was hunting an old Borax mine and it was close to town not out in the desert etc. I was in a ravine and pulled a huge chunk of Howlite from the wall. My peripheral vision caught the wall sliding in and I dove to the right and got buried past my waist and almost broke my leg. All sorts of colors for weeks.
Get good tools: I had an off brand rock hammer and was in Mojave collecting a Copper/Chrysocolla/Black Agate and I swung my hammer down on the rock and immediately felt a pain in my forearm. Blood was flowing and I thought a piece of the agate had shot off and sliced me. Nope it was a piece of the hammer and they travel like a bullet. Went into my arm 5" below the elbow and traveled thru the muscles to end up at the bone in the Elbow. That was about 8k in bills.
Saftey glasses when collecting: I thought having sunglasses would be okay as I was not doing hard digging but a chip came up and hit center of the glass lens and shattered it, still saved the eye but could have been worse. Sunglasses aren't saftey glasses (Normally, they do make them).
Chisel mushrooms: Always refinish the tops of your chisels before going on a trip they can and will have the same bullet projectiles like my hammer if they are allowed to develop the mushroom top from prolonged use.
Snake Chaps: I always use them and have had a couple cases where they were a god send. Cheap and they also protect from all the needles and grabby bushes in Texas.
WATER: I will put in a note for staying hydrated when collecting. Nothing ruins a day more than heat stroke and dehydration.
Last is Chisel hand guards: OMG I love these and so do my thumbs. So many times they have saved me from a broken thumb or blood blister etc.
I added this last one after reading dust above.
Valley Fever: A nasty Spirochete that lives for eons in dry dirt and dust and is more common in old sea bed areas that tend to have fossils but can exist all over. Bakersfield CA. is highly known for this in the Shark tooth collecting areas. In a dusty dig ANYWHERE? wear a mask, that dust is no better in your lungs than the dust we make from cabbing and probably worse.
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>Important tip: If you get a donation or gift of "White Diamond" polishing compound and it looks really old, say thank you and then when they can't see you, just throw it away.<
Wow, thanks for this. I think I received some stuff like this. Into the trash it goes!
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I got one for ya, I got my Dremel caught in my hair. I had been thinking about these stones all night and when I woke up I just ran into my shop and started playing. My long, curly hair was just begging to be snagged. I dropped the rock and went forward to pick it up and WHAM!!!! Dremel was bogging down as my hair clogged and tangled it up, I screamed at the shock of it but otherwise was fine. My rule is always put my hair up! Obvious.
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teaching idiots who plug in and turn on equipment when you're not looking and working on repairs.... or just as bad, leave them running and walk away.....
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Lack of life training, to play out side of the house.
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What are the most dangerous hazards in this hobby...????????
Going to the lapidary store with money (kidding)
Thin thin saw blades....
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In my studio - knives are a real danger! Almost took off a finger one time and most weeks have a nick or more - usually from metal polishing....
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My all time favorite was free oil given out by electric utility companies. I saw a lot of people get a pretty fast reaction when they used the oil in slab and trim saws. It was due to PCBs in the oil. They no longer use this stuff. But some of the oil is still in transformers on poles. They don't replace unless they have to.
Steve
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I'm with Neal I'm cutting a piece of Chrysotile from quartzite, if I haven't worked the material before I check it out on line before hand, a lot lately since I picked up a bunch of new material to me.
This is nasty stuff, I've kept it completely covered with oil or water and use a respirator when cutting with water on my preform stage.
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After thinking about it I remember looking at the chrysotile when we were at Quartzsite and I decided I didn’t want to risk it
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Small metal circular saw blades on Foredom or Dremel handpieces. These dangerous little suckers have teeth just like the big boys and will rip jagged slices out of your fingers if you aren't excessively careful.
:dontknow: :dontknow: :icon_scratch: :nono:
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Reviving this old thread to add some important details about the dangers of oil mist when operating saws. I observed over time a significant portion of members of our local club who didn't seem to be aware of the risk of lipoid pneumonia - inflamation of lung tissue due to accumulation of oils. Shortness of breath, chest pain, cough, and general malaise are some of the typical symptoms. Chronic exposure may lead to lasting damage.
Note that this condition is in addition to the added danger from silica particles that oil mist is carrying, or to any toxic or carcinogenic effects some oils may present (transformer oils some rockhounds reportedly use, or traces of aromatic components in impure mineral oils, smoke). Inhaling the mist of even the pure, FDA-grade mineral oil is damaging in itself.
To control the risk, avoid oils that create lots of mist (unfortunately these are often the low viscosity oils that are desirable from the mechanical standpoint).
Make sure the lid closes properly, and keep it closed for a few minutes after stopping the saw.
Know your respirator or mask: p95 rating, for example, indicates resistance to oil mist, whereas n95 material would suffer from degraded performance when exposed to oil.
Ensure adequate ventilation. If you have to reach into a cloud of oil mist, at least learn to control your breath for those few moments.
Ensure adequate lighting, so you can notice the problem if it is there. Oily surfaces around your saw are also a good indicator that you have a problem.
Try reducing the spinning rate of the saw, especially for larger-diameter blades, toward the minimum of the recommended operating range.
Learn to distinguish between the smoke and the mist - both are bad for your health, but are caused by different mechanisms, and require different remediation strategies. (Speaking of smoke, a handheld thermal camera is one of the best investments for anyone operating machinery - you can easily identify a number of problems with wiring, motors, v-belts, bearings, and blades).