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Let's Rock => Rough and Slabs => Topic started by: irockhound on April 18, 2017, 11:57:46 AM

Title: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 18, 2017, 11:57:46 AM
Hi everyone.  I have lots of Basenite for Black backing but with the Black Plumes and Red plume like Walker Ranch I often want a White background.  I sort of solved it (SORT OF being the key) with Howlite.  I live near one of the old US Borax mines that has large Howlite all thru the dumps.  That was the easy part, the hard part is that Howlite HATES oil and if you cut it with oil over time the Howlite with turn tan in areas oil impregnated.  I have soaked Howlite in water for weeks prior to cutting, Immediately immerse in kitty litter after cutting each slice and then put it in a bucket with Tide detergent for a while (up to a week) to clear oil residue.  I have even tried acetone after cutting before the tide.  Works okay but still I end up with some that changes.  I have thought about next time I clean my 12" to change to water only for a day, cut a bunch and then dry it and wd40 it before going back to oil so I don't rust everything in the saw.  I don't know of a good bright white agate and have considered White Quartz but when cut very thin for Doublets it might be okay but if cut for triplets it would probably lose a lot of it's bright whiteness because of it's translucent nature.
I recently bought a industrial tile saw to try it for the Howlite but it isn't set up  for making precise cuts so getting triplet thickness on a tile saw is a challenge.

Cutting Howlite works okay right now if it is for small cabs because I can go thru old Howlite slices and only take bright White areas, but for larger cabs or behind belt buckles it is harder to get clean white.

Anyone out there who knows of a good White backing material?
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: rocks2dust on April 18, 2017, 02:24:29 PM
White nephrite jade comes in slabs (forget where I saw them, though). If you have a tile/granite shop nearby, you might also check with them to see if they'll sell you any leftover pieces of the manufactured white quartz countertops. There are also some marble tiles that are very white, though they also are subject to staining (probably less so than howlite). Solid white glass tiles or sheets might also work (I seem to recall a guy who ground down mirrored glass to back dark plume agate).

If you want a bit of shimmer, then perhaps the labradorite moonstone from India, or mother of pearl?
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Slabbercabber on April 18, 2017, 02:34:00 PM
Depending on the setting, automotive paints can be extremely tough.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 18, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
 I know some of the manufactured products could work like White PolyStyrene sheet or even a plexiglass but if possible I would like to keep it stone.  Although it would work and the top stone is really what someone is looking at I feel it makes it un-natural  or cheap (even though by making it a doublet it isn't truly natural either).  It is just a personal opinion and I don't judge anyone else by that, just me.  I think I could live with a man made White Quartz or similar material.

I should have been more specific that I am looking for a natural backing.  Great ideas though.

Has anyone switched a saw over to water with no additives just for a short time?  I could also add some anti rust additive to water and see if that stains Howlite but any test like that could take 6 months to a year since the discoloration doesn't show up right away when Howlite is contaminated.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: gemfeller on April 18, 2017, 05:46:52 PM
Has anyone switched a saw over to water with no additives just for a short time?  I could also add some anti rust additive to water and see if that stains Howlite but any test like that could take 6 months to a year since the discoloration doesn't show up right away when Howlite is contaminated.

This is one of those times when procrastination may pay off, Steve.  I slabbed the Howlite you so generously gave me months ago in oil but have yet to follow through with making the doublets I had in mind at the time.  So far no brown spots or indications of oil contamination but I may wait to see how this thread develops before I go ahead with using the Howlite.

I've wondered about white marble.  Maybe a company that specializes in grave monuments might have some stone scraps worth investigating.  I'll also check out counter-top stone when I can locate a supplier locally. 

One thought about Howlite occurs to me.  I've been using a product called Lube Cool with water in my trim saw.  It appears to be oil-based but the slabs wash off easily with no obvious oil contamination.  The product by that name was originally supplied by Diamond Pacific and it was brownish in color but they apparently no longer supply it.  I ran across a container of it I'd purchased long ago and forgotten about.It's about used up so I ordered another quart of material by the same name from Johnson Bros.  It's  clear white but I haven't as yet used any.  It's about time to do a saw clean-up, and when I do it I'll test the new product to see if it might help with Howlite.  Thanks for bringing this topic up -- I'm interested in answers too.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Barclay on April 18, 2017, 07:42:21 PM
if you are in the SoCal area there is white marble to be collected by Wrightwood.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Steve Ramsdell on April 18, 2017, 08:26:59 PM
I would go to the local granite counter supplier.  Ask if you can look through their off cuts.   You'll be surprised at some of the goodies you can find.
Steve
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 18, 2017, 11:22:22 PM
A good White Marble might do it.  I drive out the 58 past Wrightwood every time I go to the Cady's or Calico.  I will look into the deposit there.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: rocks2dust on April 18, 2017, 11:49:35 PM
Just another thought: if you have any Spencer opal scrap or nodules laying around, that is another possibility for a very bright white. The layers with no color play are often quite thick, and even enough to avoid cutting through to layers of a different shade (as can happen with most agate). Glossy stuff that wouldn't absorb saw oil.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: ToTheSummit on April 19, 2017, 04:57:37 AM
Out in the Wileys Well area I have collected pastelite.  I am always trying to find pieces with inclusions and color for cabbing, but I have tossed aside large chunks that were pure white.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: bobby1 on April 19, 2017, 08:51:51 AM
A few years back I went to the polka dot mine and got a large piece of that material that had a significant portion that is pure white. I use it for backing.
Bob
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Greg Hiller on April 19, 2017, 10:41:05 AM
>There are also some marble tiles that are very white<

Agreed, as many have said.  If you are not working with a perfectly translucent stone, a backing stone that's not perfectly white generally works quite well.  I drive by a place that makes countertops out of all kinds of stone.  They regularly toss huge chunks of white marble in their giant dumpster.  Steve, I'll see if I cannot scare some of this material up for you. 
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Jhon P on April 19, 2017, 12:15:44 PM
I have some white chalcedony that I picked up that I was thinking about using. It is more like a jasper where no light transmits through it.   I should cut a piece and see if it will work. I will take a picture of it and see how much I have.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 19, 2017, 11:31:48 PM
Awesome, thanks for that Greg!
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Jhon P on April 20, 2017, 08:13:33 AM
Here is one piece I have. It is from the snake skin agate area outside of Austin Nevada. I have a few more pieces that I picked up from a different area somewhere.
It is about fist size I will cut off a piece and see what it looks like when polished. You are welcome to it if it will work for you
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: lapidaryrough on April 20, 2017, 10:53:02 AM
then the old favorite's  of past........Gold foil & silver foil glued to the back side then mounted in a setting. 

 
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Jhon P on April 20, 2017, 12:43:37 PM
I cut a piece off of the end. It is white.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 21, 2017, 09:54:52 PM
Thanks everyone, I took Steve and Greg's advice and went to a local Granite shop today and although they did not have any cut offs for me, they gave me 4 4"x4" samples.  3 are a bright white composite Quartz and the 4th was a Marble that had some brighter white veins in it so it would be for smaller work.  I'll try these out and post results.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: finegemdesigns on April 21, 2017, 10:19:41 PM
I have thin pure white slabs of Pristine Magnesite. See example of this material polished here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A7ZboyRdJk
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on April 21, 2017, 10:27:52 PM
I never thought about Magnesite as I am so used to it having color.  Nice idea and that looks like a good polish and clean material.
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: finegemdesigns on May 04, 2017, 10:04:30 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322501708131?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

(http://www.zbestvalue.com/images23/IMG_5272.JPG)
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: PhilNM on May 04, 2017, 03:35:47 PM
we have some white pet wood that can be collected in the Rio Puerco (NM). Also white sugar quartz, and more. I'm always cussing at all the white out there, I'm usually looking for anything but white or black (also PW).  There's also white common opal.  We also have white marble available and white oh what's it called pre marble, not quite travertine....  then we also have white gypsum and lots of i don't know white stuff out there. Ever consider white craft or stained glass?
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on May 05, 2017, 09:11:55 AM
Thanks for those ideas also.  I need to glue up some of the Quartz samples today to see how they will work.  Some of the Black plumes from Singleton trip are just begging me to get it going.  Might not get them cut till Tuesday though as I think there are some things popping up this weekend. 
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: Phishisgroovin on May 06, 2017, 04:37:51 AM
I have a small water only 6 inch table top saw.
for backing pieces i usually cut one when i need it.

I found some solid whit rocks in old rip rap (stuff in ditches to hinder erosion) its hard as heck mixed in with the basalt stones in the ditch.
You can also find them at landscape supply stores, big super hard solid white hard rocks.

Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: RadiantRocksCT on June 14, 2017, 05:03:21 PM
I've used Cacholong white agate,  also called white opal (see mindat) for backing.    It's chalcedony hard and doesn't absorb oil when you cut it.  Also i've been able to slab it thin.

would  appreciate pictures if you finish the Walker Ranch doublets.
thanks
Raul Walker
RadiantRocksCT
Title: Re: My turn to ask about backing material, White
Post by: irockhound on June 14, 2017, 10:33:42 PM
I sliced up two of the Quartz tiles and they cut nice and thin and no breakage.  I got 5 and if lucky on alignment for the first cut 6 per tile.  I have been so busy I haven't been able to dedicate any time to the doublets but it is on my list to do.  I will try and get some up soon.  The material looks just perfect for them so I think it is a winner already.  Life has been hectic and wife has knee surgery coming up so we'll see.