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Author Topic: A question of weight  (Read 4167 times)

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Enchantra

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A question of weight
« on: January 23, 2017, 10:40:53 PM »

I noticed at the Pow Wow most vendors were selling cabochons by Carat weight.  I have no problem with this.  However when a cab is backed, that material is typically not anything precious, usually basinite or Alvin lab metal.  So when they put a backed cab onto the scale and weigh it out and sell it, you are also paying for the weight of the backing material besides the actual stone.  This is where I have questions.  Why are we paying as much for the backing as we are for the actual stone? 

Sure, there is no way to know the Carat weight of the backing to calculate it differently, so I understand that is near impossible.  I also know that some more fragile materials require backing to stay together.  Also if what you are cutting is quite valuable, some people will make paper thin slabs of it and back them to get more cabs from the material.

I ask because I bought Nevada Variscite and Purple Mojave Turquoise that were backed with what appears to be Alvin Lab Metal.    This took up half the thickness of the cabs.  typically if I see a backing, it is no more than maybe 1/4 of the thickness of the cabochon.

So what are your thoughts on this?

hummingbirdstones

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Re: A question of weight
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 06:52:37 AM »

Backed cabs are doublets and should be sold for less than a solid cab IMHO.  Vince and I do not sell our cabs by carat weight (and we don't normally cut doublets).  We do weigh and measure our cabs and put that info on a little sticker on the back so folks know what it is, how much it weighs and the dimensions, but we price our cabs based on the material, how much we paid for the rough and the cut.  If it is a rarer material or difficult to cut, the price goes up.  All our cabs are "designer" cabs, i.e., we use the very best parts of the rough to get the most appealing stone possible.  Lots of waste doing that, but that's the difference between mass produced cabs from overseas and designer cabs.

Unless a stone is too soft or the seam it came from is too thin to make a cab that can be used in jewelry safely, there is absolutely no reason to back it.  An obvious exception is when a clear agate with inclusions is used with a colored backing to create a cab that is more beautiful, which is an artistic expression.

Turquoise is often backed because it is soft, but the Mohave turquoise is a man-made stone that has resin and brass or some other metal veining in it.  I have cut it, and it is pretty tough stuff.  There is no reason to back it normally.

Just my opinion on all this, of course.   :icon_sunny:
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Robin

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Re: A question of weight
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 07:17:30 AM »

It's also an opinion I respect since you cut cabs and work with the very materials that I bought as backed cabs.  I have to add this was the first time I had ever seen Purple Mojave backed, so while I found it odd, I just shrugged and bought the cabs because in my line of creating the back doesn't show.

hummingbirdstones

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Re: A question of weight
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 07:39:10 AM »

I do know that you have to buy a whole block of the Mohave if you go to Kingman to buy it from them.  It's on the expensive side, but the amount of cabs you can get out of the block should more than pay for the block and make a profit as you sell them over time.  Unless you buy it from someone else who has bought the block and sliced it up to sell slabs, that's the only way to get it.  Then you're paying premium for the slabs already being cut, of course.

I need to make a trip to Kingman to buy some, but the newer stuff they're producing now is not as pretty as the original to my eye.  People love it and does sell well, though.  Always a positive!


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Robin

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Re: A question of weight
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2017, 07:48:24 AM »

    Weight has little to do with anything as far as price with jaspers and agate. It is a guideline at best. You look at the stone and then you decide whether the price is in line with other similar stones. OR: Sometimes you pay more than market value because the stone is that beautiful. Sometimes the backing truly increases the value of the stone. Whether it is basanite to add depth and definition to a beautiful agate or Paua Shell to give the stone a different flavor. A good cabochon artist (or cutter in my case) can greatly increase the beauty of stone if he knows what backing to use.
    On the flip side are all the expensive materials cut into really crappy cabochons. Scratches and flat spots or irregular shaped ovals that all kill the feeling of the stone.
   I have been selling custom and designer cabochons as well as the standard pieces for 15 years. I have a loyal following that give me custom requests on a regular basis for cabs that run from $50 to hundreds of dollars. They are usually not cut from expensive materials but are unique in their own ways. If any of you have the July 2014 Lapidary Journal (you can google it ) you can see 10 pages of my custom pieces.
    Remember, value is in the eye of the beholder. Sadly there are some real BS artists out there who will lie out there butt holes to make a sale if they find a gullible buyer.  (been there, still feeling the pain)  Neal   my OP
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