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Author Topic: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?  (Read 6409 times)

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rubegon

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Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« on: July 04, 2016, 11:44:52 PM »

I just joined the forum this week after lurking around off and on occasionally.

I'm using Tapatalk - let's see if this works with the photos and all.

I started in lapidary first by tumbling and then I got into cabbing at a club shop a while back.  Then I lost interest for a while, mostly because it was a hassle to go to the club to get access to equipment.  I couldn't get my own setup at the time.  Now I have some space and want to set up my own equipment so I can work at home.

I bought a non-working Highland Park E-10 combo saw/grinder unit a few years ago.  It's been sitting in my garage, and I want to see if I can /should get it working.

I think I know what I want but at a bit of a loss as to how to get there.

I'm hoping someone on here can help point me in the right direction.  If this project takes off I'll post updates to this thread if anyone is interested.

I'd want to be able to slab small nodules and chunks of mostly agate and jasper.  I'd like to make cabs on it, hopefully getting all the way to final polish.

I also want to be able to polish small flats - specimens and backs of cabs and whatnot.

If I have to I can add another piece of equipment - a flat lap or whatever.

Here are some photos of what I have:










I have a working motor under the bench, a new belt and got the spindle to turn.  The bearings run smooth.

My questions:
1.  Is this thing a good base for what I want to do, or should I get something different?  If so, how should I set it up?  A few diamond wheels and an expando?  Flat on the end?
2.  Is there anywhere I can get a copy of the original manual for this thing?  I couldn't find an electronic copy online anywhere and HP don't support them anymore apparently.
2.  Can I get clean precise cuts with this type of saw?  I'm missing a bunch of parts and not sure what I need, or whether it will do what I want if I get it all together.  Is there any way to set it up with an automatic feed?
3.  I'm missing mounting hardware for the saw blade.  A nut and a couple of flange/disc-type things I think are needed.  Do I need OEM parts or can I just use a couple of washers and an off-the-shelf nut?  Could I use parts made for another saw with the same arbor size?
4.  How do I disassemble the arbor?   There's a nut on the left and a collar with a set screw on the right.  It looks like the wheels and some spacer tubes are clamped between the 2.  Is that how these things work?  I thought I'd ask in case there's a trick to it.  Otherwise I guess I just pull the bearing off the right end, break the huge nut off, then I suppose it will all come off the end.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help.  If I should just ditch this thing and buy something please tell me that too!

I was tempted to just buy a 6" CabKing and put this thing on the curb.  My budget could handle that.  It would be nice to get this thing working with 8" wheels with some more space though...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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peruano

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2016, 05:57:20 AM »

Its a great base to start with, but being a basic unit and a combo unit it has a couple of drawbacks.
1.  combo units are fine, but the saw has to run when you are grinding, and the wheels spin when you are sawing.
However they save on space and motors.
2. The number of wheels you can use is limited, but you probably have room for three wheels if you space them closely, but it will be hard to put an expando wheel on that shaft (the bearings are on the outside and prevent access for belt changes), but you do probably have enough shaft exposed on the right side to run a polishing plate.
3. There is nothing wrong with the saw.  I forget whether its a 10" or an 8" but it is quite adapt for hand cuts, and might be rigged for a gravity feed (with care). 
4.Yes a few parts of your vice are missing but should be easy to fabricate.
5. For assembly of the saw blade, you will need a couple of collar washers and a left hand thread nut.
6.  For the spacers on the shaft with wheels, you can buy aluminum spacers or use pvc components.  I'd ditch the silica carbide wheels and go with a diamond 100, 200, and nova 600, and do your final polishing on something else.  The grits and steps between them on these wheels and any others that you might need to extend the process will depend on your preference, goals, and pocket depth. 
7. Disassembly is as you suspected.  The bearings will require some polishing of the shaft and maybe require a puller, but they will come off to allow you to slide the wheels off.
I resurrected a similar machine and can provide photos or other guidance if you hit problems.  PM if you want a phone number. 
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jakesrocks

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2016, 07:31:25 AM »

By all means rebuild that machine. Highland Park was some of the best equipment ever built. If you can find the guard for the right end, flat spin on disks are available which can have any grit of sanding you need.

When the mud settles & I can get into my shed, I think I may have a brand new right end shield for your machine that I picked up on ebay, just to have it.

Taken from the 1969 HP catalog. This is what your machine would have looked like new. (Note the price).

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bilquest

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 09:14:59 AM »

HP was (is) arguably the best lapidary equipment made. Simple in design and built to last several lifetimes. I have an E-13 model where a shaft extender and splash guard was added on the right side for an expando wheel. I replaced the two SC wheels with three diamond wheels... plenty of room. I've not had to replace the bearings but they appear to be standard pillow block units. Basic tools with a little common sense is all you need for maintenance... and I have been getting by with just the basic tools.  :shocked:
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kent

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2016, 12:53:44 PM »

Do it. Its a great machine. I recoated mine after extensive cleaning. Pillow blocks (shaft bearings) were still good. I ended up replacing the original wheels with coated diamond resin wheels from Covington and added an expando wheel at the far right. My unit is a tad longer. The saw blade has its own designated motor.

 Cheers,

Kent
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rubegon

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2016, 04:01:15 PM »

Thanks everyone for the responses!  From what I had read it seemed like it was a machine worth reviving.  I'm feeling motivated to go for it now.  :-)

Its a great base to start with, but being a basic unit and a combo unit it has a couple of drawbacks.
1.  combo units are fine, but the saw has to run when you are grinding, and the wheels spin when you are sawing.
However they save on space and motors.
2. The number of wheels you can use is limited, but you probably have room for three wheels if you space them closely, but it will be hard to put an expando wheel on that shaft (the bearings are on the outside and prevent access for belt changes), but you do probably have enough shaft exposed on the right side to run a polishing plate.
3. There is nothing wrong with the saw.  I forget whether its a 10" or an 8" but it is quite adapt for hand cuts, and might be rigged for a gravity feed (with care). 
4.Yes a few parts of your vice are missing but should be easy to fabricate.
5. For assembly of the saw blade, you will need a couple of collar washers and a left hand thread nut.
6.  For the spacers on the shaft with wheels, you can buy aluminum spacers or use pvc components.  I'd ditch the silica carbide wheels and go with a diamond 100, 200, and nova 600, and do your final polishing on something else.  The grits and steps between them on these wheels and any others that you might need to extend the process will depend on your preference, goals, and pocket depth. 
7. Disassembly is as you suspected.  The bearings will require some polishing of the shaft and maybe require a puller, but they will come off to allow you to slide the wheels off.
I resurrected a similar machine and can provide photos or other guidance if you hit problems.  PM if you want a phone number.

Hi peruano - thanks for the feedback!
I don't think I mind if it's all spinning all the time.  I'll set it up that way and see if I have any issues with it.

It looks like 3 x 8" wheels will fit on the spindle with a reasonable amount of space between them.  If I put a plate on the end I suppose I can use that for everything else, with swappable velcro-backed discs?  I used a 6 wheel setup before so don't have any experience with that.

I was thinking of getting a slab grabber for the saw and then just making something to clamp it to the vice part I have there.

The collar washers and nut for the saw - where is a good place to get these?  I see Covington has some here:  http://covington-engineering.com/flanges-spacers/
Is there another/better source?

I was planning to get diamond wheels as you suggest.

I'm not sure what to do for polishing.  Adding the disc on the end is seems like the simplest option.  Maybe I could start with that and see what I want after working with that a while.

I'll get to work on taking the spindle apart.  It's going to take some WD-40 and elbow grease!  I think I have a bearing puller somewhere ...

I may contact you for help once I get into it - thanks for the offer!

When the mud settles & I can get into my shed, I think I may have a brand new right end shield for your machine that I picked up on ebay, just to have it.

Taken from the 1969 HP catalog. This is what your machine would have looked like new. (Note the price).

Jake - I think I'm definitely going to want that shield if you've got it and are willing to part with it!  Let me know if you do please.

I paid not much less than that for mine, and you see what state it's in!  I'd love to have a brand spanking new one of these with all the bells and whistles!  But then I suppose I'd miss out on all the fun of rebuilding it.  :-)

HP was (is) arguably the best lapidary equipment made. Simple in design and built to last several lifetimes. I have an E-13 model where a shaft extender and splash guard was added on the right side for an expando wheel. I replaced the two SC wheels with three diamond wheels... plenty of room. I've not had to replace the bearings but they appear to be standard pillow block units. Basic tools with a little common sense is all you need for maintenance... and I have been getting by with just the basic tools.  :shocked:

I can see that - I like simple and robust.  :icon_thumleft:  I understand how this thing goes together and it seems really solid.

I wonder if I could add an expando wheel with a shaft extender on the right side of this one.  The spindle seems very stable when it's spinning.  Did you have to make the splash guard, or can you buy something off the shelf that works?

Do it. Its a great machine. I recoated mine after extensive cleaning. Pillow blocks (shaft bearings) were still good. I ended up replacing the original wheels with coated diamond resin wheels from Covington and added an expando wheel at the far right. My unit is a tad longer. The saw blade has its own designated motor.

Hi Kent.  I was planning on just doing a quick and dirty refurb job to get it working, but now thinking maybe I should clean/paint and do it right the first time.  How did you clean yours and what kind of coating did you apply?  It looks like mine could use a good sandblasting.  I scrubbed it with a nylon brush, but there's a lot of stubborn crud all over it that didn't come off.
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johnjsgems

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2016, 04:59:55 PM »

If you have never removed bearings here is a quick lesson.  Buy a roll of plumbers sand cloth at hardware.  Also rust buster or similar.  Soak everything up and polish all exposed sections of shaft with the sand cloth.  File any set screw dings in shaft.  The bearings will be "concentric collar type".  They have a locking collar that centers and secures them.  Remove the one set screw and tap at collar dimple with a punch and hammer.  Opposite direction of rotation.  Collar will slide off.  Bearing won't.  Not without a lot of persuading.  Don't hammer on bearing unless you are replacing.  Better to put a block of wood on shaft end and try to get shaft to slide.  Good luck.  Lots of rust penetrant and let it soak a day or two could help.
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jakesrocks

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 05:26:43 PM »

Those are all aluminum castings. Don't sandblast it. If you can find someone who does soda blasting, that will remove the corrosion without also removing metal. If you lived near me, I'd drag out my soda blaster & do it for you.
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kent

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 06:01:55 PM »

On the painted parts it was simple elbow action.Wet and dry sandpaper with water wash as a lubricant. Goes pretty fast. You could use a real scratchy Scotch Brite pad also. Nooks and cranny's I used a small wire detail brush.

Paint was Rustoleum Hammered silver. I tried to duplicate the original paint coating. If you notice my plexiglass box over the saw blade. It has an opening at the side so I can get my arm in there for hand holding trim pieces. The opening is small enough I can put a old t shirt over it and my arm so the oil mist doesn't travel too far. Half of the top can hinge up so when the plexi is splattered with dark oil I can lift to see my hand held work.   
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johnjsgems

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2016, 06:47:01 AM »

Kent, did you spray the Rustoleum over bare aluminum?  Looks really good.  I read conflicting advice about etching primers and so on.  Really like the hammered paints.  Sorry to divert the post but will have a lot of bare aluminum castings to paint soon.  Hammered paints give a really professional looking finish.
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jakesrocks

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 07:26:44 AM »

After having spent my working life as a sheet metal mechanic, I can tell you that aluminum will need a primer or etching before final painting. Yellow chromate used to be the standard primer for aluminum, but it's nearly impossible to get now. Check with your paint store & see what they advise to use as a primer.

Galvanized parts also need a primer before painting. Green chromate used to be the standard, but again it's nearly impossible to find now. You can thank the good old EPA for that.
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bobby1

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2016, 07:43:55 AM »

You can get self etching primer at auto supplies stores. I just got a can at O'reilly auto parts. I use a oil penetrant called PB Blaster and it does a great job. Spray it on and leave it to soak overnight. It also can be found at auto parts stores and most hardware stores.
Bob
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johnjsgems

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2016, 08:53:53 AM »

Home Depot here carries PB Blaster.  Make sure it is the rust penetrant.  PB Blaster silicon spray looks very similar.  Another good one is fairly new WD40 product.  Can't remember the name but at Home Depot next to regular WD 40.  Works very well.  If you have time and patience spray several times a day for a couple of days.  Thanks for tip on etching primer.  I use the hammered paints on old lapidary units regularly.  great over rusted tin and hides a world of finish blemishes.  Says it "encapsulates rust" so meant to use on most surfaces without primer. 
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peruano

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2016, 10:24:11 AM »

You wondered:  "I wonder if I could add an expando wheel with a shaft extender on the right side of this one.  The spindle seems very stable when it's spinning.  Did you have to make the splash guard, or can you buy something off the shelf that works?"

I suspect not. I have the B12 model which has a longer shaft there (the one pictured above by
? appears to be the same - they both have a longer shaft on the right end.  But maybe you do. . . just measure the length of shaft and calculate the distance needed for a 3" expando.  You can buy trays and splash guards from Kingsley North and other sources but their width tend to be standardized at 6.5 or 7" (as I recall).  This would mean sacrificing the buffer or substituting back and forth.  As is probably obvious the expando has to be outside the bearing to provide access for belt replacement.  Just helping you think through the process.  Tom 
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kent

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Re: Should I refurbish this busted old HP E-10 Combo unit?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2016, 11:49:39 AM »

The Rustoleum can for the hammered silver says "Paint and Primer" in one. I didn't use a "primer" and I see no indication of paint failure. Its adhering very well and holding up to my continual wiping down of oil mist and dust.

Regarding primers, they need to be compatible with the paint used for the overcoat. Etch primers tend to chemically corrode aluminum to allow them to adhere and then the outer layer adheres to the etch. A well sanded surface offers enough bite for paint to adhere to. The problem with most coating failures has to do with preparation. Chemicals are sensitive of other chemicals so after sanding, rinse the piece (s) with soap and water, water rinse and dry. Don't wipe it down with paint thinner, acetone, ect. Do a water rinse. That way there is no additional residual chemical remaining that might react with the paint your using. 

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