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Author Topic: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?  (Read 4156 times)

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nwbeachrocker

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Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« on: January 12, 2017, 08:20:36 AM »

Hello Everyone,
I have an older LST-12 and it bound up on me in the middle of a cut last night.  I read the article posted here by Richard J. Gindhart, "Care and Feeding of Rocksaws".  Per the article I checked the blade and it runs true, but the carriage is way out of alignment with the blade.  He says in the article that the system should be realigned but doesn't go into how to do that.

LST-12 rail.jpg
*LST-12 rail.jpg (146.36 kB . 480x640 - viewed 749 times)

Any thoughts on "aligning the system"? 
Is it the carriage that is aligned or the arbor or both?

Thanks for any input, my next call is to Lortone.
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Slabbercabber

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 09:47:05 AM »

Take the cover off the arbor.  If it is a poly or pillow blocks it will have slotted mounting holes.  The screwdriver you have will get you close, but if you can find a dial indicator you can get it close enough to give you unmarked cuts.
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nwbeachrocker

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 03:41:29 PM »

Not sure what poly or pillow blocks are but I don't see any slots, or anything that looks adjustable yet.  I'll get the machine up on edge and see what things look like underneath before loosening these 4 mounting bolts.

lst 12 arbor.jpg
*lst 12 arbor.jpg (171.41 kB . 640x480 - viewed 787 times)

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55fossil

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 07:15:07 PM »

   You may not see anything from underneath either. Often the bolt holes are just slightly elongated or ovated in shape. It only takes a very small amount of movement to really make that arbor shift.
     If your saw blade is basically true to the vise I would not loosen those bolts until you do other checks.
1;  Can you move the rock vise in any direction with your hands? The vise should be firmly mounted to the guide rods with only enough give to allow the vise to move
     forward and back, no up/down or left/right movement.
2;  Is your blade SHARP????  Saw blades need to be cleaned / sharpened on a regular basis. Many blades will cut a soft rock or small rock and bind up on a bigger rock.
     There are dozens of ways to sharpen a dull blade depending on the type of saw blade you have.
    I would try and sharpen your blade before make any adjustments. We have all been down this road, I think.

good luck,  Neal
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nwbeachrocker

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 07:36:11 PM »

Thanks for the perspective Neil, I will pursue all thoughts!
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nwbeachrocker

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 07:56:22 PM »

I didn't mean ALL thoughts, but your suggestions.
If I pursued All thoughts, I might me in jail. :evil:
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GoodEarth

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 08:46:07 AM »

I'm not familiar with this saw in particular, but some causes of bad alignment can be:

Guide Rail bushings are worn and need replacement
vise bushings worn
The guide rails can wear over time, turning them from round stock to oval. a fix for this is to loosen the rails and rotate them 90 degrees before tightening.
 Blade bearings are going out. - grab the blade and try to wiggle it. If there is any movement in the blade, back forward or left right, you have an oval bearing.
If it were me, I'd tear the vise down, and check all of the bushings. Putting it back together will let you find any place that the alignment is sloppy. If you can't find anything there, then check the blade arbor. 
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55fossil

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 12:28:00 PM »

   While I agree with GoodEarth, I also believe in KISS. The easiest thing to do is sharpen the blade after you feel for simple wobbles. If nothing wobbles sharpen the blade and try to cut a stone. If you are not a mechanic or familiar with aligning shafts you can create many problems that were never there.
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Grayco

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 02:31:30 PM »

Hello Everyone,
I have an older LST-12 and it bound up on me in the middle of a cut last night.  I read the article posted here by Richard J. Gindhart, "Care and Feeding of Rocksaws".  Per the article I checked the blade and it runs true, but the carriage is way out of alignment with the blade.  He says in the article that the system should be realigned but doesn't go into how to do that.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Any thoughts on "aligning the system"? 
Is it the carriage that is aligned or the arbor or both?

Thanks for any input, my next call is to Lortone.

Have you completed this alignment yet?

If not here are a couple thoughts.
Harbor freight Item# 93051 is an indicator and a vise grip type attaching tool.  You might also check out just the indicator and a magnetic base.
Items 623 and 5645.

Mount the indicator base on your vice so it is solid.  Put a mark on your blade near the outer edge.  At the front of the blade and above the level of the blade collar, bring the indicator tip up to the blade and in until the indicator reads about .100".  Set the indicator to zero. Gently rotate your blade so the mark is in the back and move the vise with the indicator still in position to the back and measure the same mark at the back of the saw.  This will tell you how much your blade/carriage is out of alignment.

The next part is probably more art than science, but here is the science part. 

I am going to assume you will adjust the blade arbor and not the carriage.

Divide the amount of misalignment by the distance between your mark in the front position and the mark in the back position and you will have  the amount of misalignment per inch of blade. Example; the distance between the mark in the front(where the indicator was) and the back position (where the indicator was) reads 11.25".  The misalignment was .025" .025/11.25= .002" per inch of blade.

I have numbered your arbor bolts 1-4 in the attached picture. Here is the art part of this.  You need to decide how to loosen the arbor bearing bolts. You are only going to loosen 3 of the 4 but you may need to SLIGHTLY loosen the 4th. You are going to pivot the arbor on one of the two bearing bolts closet to the blade. It doesn't really matter which one remains tight.  For the purpose of this post loosen all but #1.  2,3 and 4 should not be sloppy loose just loose enough that with a few light hammer taps, the bearing can move under the bolt.

Lets assume the front of the blade needs to move closer to the vise. you are going to tap the outboard bearing (at bolt 3) to the right.  How much should you move it?  Remember the misalignment per inch number? .002"  x the distance between the centers of bolts 1 and 3.

Measure the distance between the centers of bolt 1 and bolt 3 and multiply it by .002 (misalignment per inch).  Lets assume the measurement between bearing bolts is 5".  The amount you need to move the bearing is .010".  Measuring the movement may be difficult.  Expect the bearing to move as you re-tighten the bolts.  Re-measure the blade misalignment and repeat process while holding your tongue in a different position each time.  After a few tries you should find the correct tongue position and the alignment will be very close. Swearing seldom helps (much) but sometimes putting a penny in your left shoe can be beneficial.

How close is close enough?  I can't say.  I will tell you, the closer the alignment is, the nicer your finished cut will be.
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peruano

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 03:26:49 PM »

Way to go Grayco.  Me thinks you are not a newbie to technical machinery.  Thanks for taking the time to splain it good. 
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Stonemon

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Re: Carriage alignment on a LST-12?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 03:28:30 PM »

Grayco has it right, the adjustment is done at the arbor. Your first picture with the screwdriver will get you close enough to stop the binding I believe. As you move the carriage toward the motor you should be able to see which way the blade is out. If the screwdriver is closer at the kerf than the arbor, the arbor needs to rotate clockwise from the top. If the blade is closer at the arbor than the cutting diamond surface rotate the arbor counter clockwise.
To rotate the arbor loosen the two bolts on the pulley end of the shaft. When I do this I leave a little snugness so I can lightly tap the arbor with a rubber mallet and it stays where I put it. Then release the carriage and run it back and forth, adjusting the arbor until the blade parallels the screwdriver.
When it meets your approval, tighten the bolts on the arbor and replace the shield.
Make sure you have enough coolant in your pan, cue up a piece of rock and see how it works.
I have made this adjustment on my 12" Lortone with very little work and great results.
Bill
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Bill
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