Lapidaryforum.net

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome new members & old from the Lapidary/Gemstone Community Forum. Please join up. You will be approved after spam check & you must manually activate your acct with the link in your email

Congratulations to ToTheSummit and his Condor Cab!

 www.lapidaryforum.net

Another cabochon contest coming soon!

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: dead camel vs. dead ringer  (Read 1027 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bilquest

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • Rocks and Stuff
dead camel vs. dead ringer
« on: June 12, 2018, 08:51:17 PM »

I finally worked up the courage and funds to buy some dead camel jasper. Having ogled pictures of it over the last couple years, I could no longer wait. And the claim owner had just come home with a fresh batch. What I got in the mail was a box of bait-n-switch jasper. Nothing like the material advertised. It resembled the stuff I bought in Quartzite last year for 3 bucks a pound. I won't name names but it's not difficult to google dead camel jasper and find the dude. I would not recommend anyone buy anything from this guy without first seeing the actual material. Don't trust his web pics to represent the merchandise, that's all I'm saying.

So, I'm down $200+ and depressed about the whole thing. However, I've noticed some very similar stuff on eBay called dead ringer jasper. Does anyone know the story behind this variety?
Logged


Jhon P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1625
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 09:05:16 PM »

There is two claims (may be three now) on the mountian, Dead Camel is the first one and dead ringer is close but a different claim. There is a variety of colors and patterns And value.
I was on the mountian Saturday but didn’t drive up to the top where the claims are. The road was soft sand and I have a heavy one ton diesel and chickened out. It looks like I don’t know much. But I would complain if you are not happy. The rock is nice but to me it is not worth the price. $25 to $45 a pound
 Didn’t the mine owner post some pictures on this site a while back?
Logged

socalagatehound

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1388
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 09:17:02 PM »

So here's the info I know. There are two vendors who mine in the Dead Camel Mountains in Nevada. One sells Dead Camel Jasper and Red Falcon Jasper, along with other things he mines. The other sells Mescalero Jasper and Dead Ringer Jasper. Dead Camel and Mescalero are very similar but not exactly the same. Very colorful rhyolite/wonderstone material and broken out of rhyolite dykes protruding out of the hillsides. They are within a stones throw of each other. Both were originally called Lahontan Jasper, as far as I know. Red Falcon and Dead Ringer are very similar appearing as well. One of the miners told me that Dead Camel and Red Falcon come from the same outcrops, just different levels of coloration.

If my information is correct, ordering Dead Camel you should have received stone with blues, lavenders, reds, etc. If you received something that looked like Dead Ringer (reds, tans and pinks, no blue at all), it was Red Falcon and not Dead Camel. I have purchased both Dead Camel and Mescalero from the claim holders at Quartzsite and both were beautiful...but brittle and a bit tricky to work. I also have Red Falcon, but not Dead Ringer, because Dead Ringer looked a little less hard to me and I already had rough that looked like that.

Is that confusing yet? Hope not.  If you got the wrong thing from the mine owner/vendor, see if he'll let you return it and make good on it. I know him and, though expensive, he's always been a straight up kind of guy.

Craig
Logged

Sapphireminer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 169
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 10:05:36 PM »

I purchased a 15lb box of dead camel from the same person using the photos he posted on this site and his web site as a guide as not living in the US I dont get to see this stone. The dealer said he would put in a extra 5lb which he did but when working out cost it wasn't for free. Postage cost and time was great. When stone arrived I could see some pieces were poor quality even before cutting others look ok and when cut had good colour but most had open fractures that made it difficult to get many freeform cabs out of each slab certainly didnt match the photos. Contacted dealer and explained what I thought and sent a heap of photos he told me the open fractures were the nature of this stone and if I wasn't happy he would refund half my money and send a couple of top grade slabs .I thought that was what I was getting anyway . Half The money was refunded immediately but no slabs ever came I don't  think I will go down that path again. This is just my experience.
Dave
Logged

socalagatehound

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1388
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 10:08:23 PM »

Sapphireminer: Yes, the open fractures are an issue with Dead Camel. When I hand select pieces at Quartzsite it's my main area of concern. The vendor should not assume you know this automatically and that should be posted on his site.

bilquest: So I just checked one of the vendors websites, the one I suspect you purchased your shipment from. He no longer lists Dead Camel and Red Falcon separately, apparently lumping it all together as Dead Camel. That would certainly explain what you received, but still leaves an ethical question about informing you if a change was made in how he sells it. Best to clear it up with him before we make any further assumptions. If he doesn't make it right, then you should definitely let us all know!
Logged

Kaljaia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 03:06:34 PM »

I follow silverhilllapidary on instagram and claim drama aside the material is pretty. Silverhilllapidary is claim owner for dead ringer, and the pictures they show are of the blue/pink/yellow/red material.
Logged
- Erika

I rock hunt in the Antelope/Ashwood area of the John Day river basin in Oregon. 90% of what I post is from this area, from private property where I have permission to hike and collect. The material I find is for personal use only, I do not have landowner permission to sell. Thanks for understanding!

ToTheSummit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 981
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 03:53:04 PM »

I hand picked some Dead Camel at Quartzsite and after seeing all the rough that was available I don't think I'd buy this material any other way. It is phenomenal stuff when you get a good piece, but I sorted through a whole pile to find a couple pieces I was happy to spend $25 a pound for.  However, what I finally settled on was worth the price.
Logged

gemfeller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 497
    • Art Cut Gems
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 04:47:39 PM »

I hand picked some Dead Camel at Quartzsite and after seeing all the rough that was available I don't think I'd buy this material any other way. It is phenomenal stuff when you get a good piece, but I sorted through a whole pile to find a couple pieces I was happy to spend $25 a pound for.  However, what I finally settled on was worth the price.
I completely agree.  I can't get out to many shows these days so I purchased Dead Camel by mail.  Never again!  I was really shocked at the difference between the promotional hype and the nearly unusable material I received.  Being unfamiliar with the nature of this particular jasper at the time I sawed a few slabs, hoping for nice colors and unfractured patterns.  I was greatly disappointed but it was too late then to complain to the seller.  If I ever buy it again (unlikely) it will be in person.
Logged

bilquest

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
    • Rocks and Stuff
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 06:18:32 PM »

UPDATE!!!

When I returned home from work today I was greeted by another package from the dead camel guy. Inside was a tidy stack of premium DC slabs... colors/patterns as advertised! I had sent him a polite complaint last weekend after slabbing up what appears to be Red Falcon, so he must've realized his error. Granted, I'd hoped to have the 10 lbs. of DC rough that I ordered, but I am absolutely thrilled that I finally have some quality material to work with. Thank you dead camel guy!

...and thanks to everyone who replied to my whine, good info!
Logged

finegemdesigns

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 212
    • finegemdesigns
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 07:53:05 PM »

Buying rough over the internet is tricky and I don't buy parcels sight unseen.
I know the dead camel owner and did buy 2 slabs off his website. They have so far produced 1 excellent cab which sold quickly in my eBay Store. I haven't yet cut the second slab.

A common problem occurs when photos are taken outside in sunlight. Most cameras will render colors in a way I call "blue skew." In many cases gray colors will appear blue and make the rocks look better than they are.

I'm guessing this was the case for some of you that bought dead camel in a Flat Rate Box sight unseen. The cost per pound is less but your actual yield of high grade cutting rough will also likely be less.
Logged

vitzitziltecpatl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 707
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 08:48:35 PM »

We bought a box of this rough 3-4 years ago now. Like a lot of randomly patterned rough, there had to be some way for the minerals forming the different colored areas to get in. Some of the fractures that allowed this to happen never healed completely, but it's the little pinhole voids that annoy me most of all.

Cutting "between the cracks" yields some really nice cabs - but prevents framing some of the best patterns the way we might prefer to use them. Unless they were filled, of course. The stupid little pinholes just show up unexpectedly, though, and there's no way to predict when or where they might show up.

All in all, the rough we bought easily yields stones that pay for the rough, but the amount of labor time spent working around the problems definitely makes it less profitable. I haven't seen any of the recently mined rough. If the patterns and colors are less intense in the recent material I probably wouldn't buy more either - without seeing it in hand, that is.

freeformcabs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
    • freeformcabs by Shain Mayer
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 09:37:52 AM »

These are the types of discussion I enjoy seeing and adding my two cents. In essence it is not about the dealer as much as its about buying rough online. Regardless of the material. When buying rough online I tend to expect 40-60% loss or waste. And that is not from the cutting or it, but rather the disappointment I may find when it actually can get cut.  Even top grade material. I am still sitting on a phemo piece of Blue Chalcedony I got 20 years ago. It has a thick core of gel and a what looks like a rather thin rind. But I still suspect at best 60% of the material is usable because of the nature of rocks and how the gel center may still hold a convergence or fortified band that mars the clean gel.

Now I have not cut the DC in discussion but I do follow it online and watch the sales from time to time. Have a decent collection still of Antelope which may not be as colorful but I suspect has similar characteristics as DC. Which is confirmed in this discussion. I think like others it best to buy slabs(which is always better for rough) or wait to buy some in person.
Logged
~Shain

55fossil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 651
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 05:13:42 PM »

This is nothing new from MR. Dead Camel.  Same thing happened when he started out with his material and BS stories from Graveyard Point. It was well aired on the Forum. I am not saying he does not sell some very nice material but I also know what else he has sold and what has come out of his mouth, so to speak. I am glad that MR. DC settled up with you to your satisfaction.

 Make your own decisions.  OR.... 

That being said;  I saw Jeffrey at Prineville show today. He had his material from the Lahotian area. Yes, cracks and pits in between some very nice usable areas for cabbing. Yep, Dead Ringer for the Dead Camel material. Stuff was very pretty. It is all mined in the same area but a fair distance apart on different hills and separate claims.
Logged

Slabbercabber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 387
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 05:25:04 AM »

Is it possible that this material is being mined with explosives, or is that just the nature of the material?
Logged

55fossil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 651
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2018, 10:15:23 AM »

      No explosives.  Jeff told me about his collecting and much of what is done on the DC claim. There are a lot of people actually collecting in this area that do not have claims as well as the miners. The collecting is easier than getting in and out of the region where the jasper is. Like most areas that have jasper, far more of it is poor quality than good. Even the best material in this area usually has areas with pits and cracks among the really fine quality material on the same stones. Jeff will be at Madras with rough, slabs and cabs if you want to buy some. Mr. DC will be there as well. He does have great stones as well as low quality stuff, but I would never buy from him unless I held the stone in my own hand before giving him cash. Voice of experience as I knew him well.....
Logged

aksockeye

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 201
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2018, 01:55:20 AM »

The dead ringer I could find on google search was not as good as dead camel. Where should I look to find similar examples?
Logged

Jhon P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1625
Re: dead camel vs. dead ringer
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2018, 06:42:31 AM »

The trail going to the top is deep sand for about a quarter mile. When I was out there recently I chickened out driving through the sand in My one ton truck
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.08 seconds with 59 queries.