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[TwoDog]

  Ok....shop time.
  Finally ready to start up.
  Been reading around and I think to start I am going to need
  Covington 10" trim saw with power feed.
  Cabbing station with quick change wheels--something like the Cab King?
  Flat Lap
  Dop Pot

  Silver smithing stuff is on the list too, but that's another post. :-)
  How does that sit with you guys as a starting package?
  Get me started being able to do small slabs from rough and take them all the way down to cabs?

   Let me know what you think.
    Thanks
    Dave

[55fossil]

   I always have thoughts about a 10 inch power feed saw. I had one for 5 years and never turned it on. I also have a 10 inch Lortone saw which I use to cut small stones by hand and as a trim saw. Two advantages: You can trim a large slab on the big deck. You can also cut larger stones. After feeding the stone by hand you flip it over and cut through the other side. Slabs are not as precise but I have managed well and you can get a manual rock vise that bolts in. I do like Covington saws but Lortone sells a stainless steel kit pretty cheap. Add a motor, blade and wooden base and save a lot of money. Plus more versatile as you need to trim those slabs.

PS:  I use only water in my trim saw. Most power feed saws require oil. So if you pan to trim with your slab saw it can be messy.

[jerrysg]

A couple of thoughts. 

That 10" saw with the power feed will cut slabs from rough but I would consider also getting a smaller saw to trim slabs. Wife and I made do with the Ameritool 4"/5" trim saw when we started and now have a 6" trim saw on the Loretone combo machine I rescued from an estate sale. Our lapidary club has 12" and larger slab saws but use 6" trim saws in the cabochon lab. I have a 10" Raytech power feed saw but that is not used to trim slabs, just to make slabs from smaller rough. The Raytech uses mineral oil, but the trim saws all use water. Much cleaner to work with.

I would not bother with the dop pot but go with super glue.  Here is a link to a post that I put up that describes the super glue/wood screw system that I use. http://lapidaryforum.net/group/index.php?topic=1859.msg14588#msg14588 Since I posted that article I found that a local (Tucson area) hobby shop has better prices for the super glue/accelerator. Two ways to remove the screw from the finished cab. Either soak the combo in acetone overnight or hold the tip of the screw with a needle nose pliers and heat the shaft of the screw with a mini-torch. Just have a soft rag under the cab to catch it when it comes loose from the screw.

This is a great hobby and there are some awesome people on this forum who go out of their way to be very helpful. Enjoy

Jerry

[peruano]

I agree with everything JerrySg said about dop, superglue etc.  Me if I was setting up a cabbing setup from scratch, I'd use expandos and belts (diamonds for the high end and silicon carbide, aluminum oxide and cheaper diamond belts for the bigger grits.  A hard 80, a hard 200 or so, and maybe a nova 280 and the rest would be belts. 

[Barclay]

Something you may want to consider is a cheap Harbor Freight brick saw for medium duty slabbing and heavy trimming.  You can get them for about $280 on sale.  They take water so you can cut porous material with them.  Mine has been sitting on my back porch in the summer heat and winter cold and the only problem i have had is the plastic tub eventually got too brittle and cracked.  A cheap mortar mixing tub from Home Depot and i was up and running again.  I even rigged a pulley on it so it is kind of an auto feed.  On the plus side it is cheap, durable and easy to use.  On the minus side it is very noisy and water does tend to go everywhere.  For serious slabbing I would recommend a local rock club with a true slab saw.

For the flat lap here is my experience;  Inland Lapidary is junk.  i had to replace the motor three times since water kept getting in it.  The dinky washer they have is poorly designed.  I had a Hi Tech swap top for a number of years and was happy with it until the body cracked and water got in the motor.  The channels in the water tray made cleaning a real pain.  Currently i have an Ameritool and am very happy with it.  It is compact and easy to clean.

Expando drums are a pain.  The belts are cheaper than soft wheels, but you get what you pay for.  Wheels will last you for years. 

[bobby1]

I use  expando silicon carbide belts almost exclusively. I work them hard and they still last me a long time.
Bob

[TwoDog]

  Hmm...yes...
  Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.  I think to start I need to start small....with a small combination station--want to stick with WATER and 120v...
  Maybe a Lortone or Covinton combo unit.

[Slabbercabber]

No matter how long someone has been cutting, their preference for equipment will not be the same as the next person.  May I suggest you find a club and use as many different types of machine as possible before you decide what equipment to buy.  People with patience who are willing to use light pressure will like totally different machines and wheels than those who prefer high output.  Also, the size of rough you expect to use most of will affect the type of saws you find most useful.  Every piece of equipment and consumable part has a range of use for which it is best suited.  You will be well served to find the range that suits you.

[TwoDog]

  I wish I had time to do some more experimentation for my preferences of one over the other.  But we are going to be on the move a lot this year, and I won't have a lot of time in one place to build a relationship with a club and start using their gear, I don't think. 
  I definitely have lowered my needs in terms of slab/trim saws.
  Water only for lube...
  120v only...

  If I have a smallish combination unit, like the Covington or Lortone 6" would I still need a flat lap?  Flat lap is very useful for flattening the backs of stones right?
  Dopping with superglue method..got it...will review.  Thank you!

  I have a dremel tool for some carving, drilling and shaping, but is there a nice clamp device that would hold a cab while I cut on it with a dremel?
 

[Slabbercabber]

If your slab saw is set up properly, the back of the cab will be flat already.  Polishing should be all that is required.  My 18" flat lap is only used for preparing display slabs and nodules.

[jerrysg]

  I wish I had time to do some more experimentation for my preferences of one over the other.  But we are going to be on the move a lot this year, and I won't have a lot of time in one place to build a relationship with a club and start using their gear, I don't think. 
  I definitely have lowered my needs in terms of slab/trim saws.
  Water only for lube...
  120v only...

  If I have a smallish combination unit, like the Covington or Lortone 6" would I still need a flat lap?  Flat lap is very useful for flattening the backs of stones right?
  Dopping with superglue method..got it...will review.  Thank you!

  I have a dremel tool for some carving, drilling and shaping, but is there a nice clamp device that would hold a cab while I cut on it with a dremel?
 

TwoDog,

I have a number of comment to your post.

First, you said that you will be moving a lot this year.  Are you an RVer? My wife and I are full timer RVers with a place in the Tucson area for the winter although we are spending this summer parked there.  We started with the Ameritool 8" flat lap and trim saw. They fit very nicely in the basement of our RV and don't weigh a lot. Pluses in our book. The old Loretone combo machine that we just picked up is also small enough to carry with us and light enough not to affect our weight balance. All of these use water.  The 10" Raytech slab saw that uses oil doesn't travel with us. Stays in the shed on our lot when we RV, comes out when we park. Wife says we have enough slabs anyhow.

Second, the flat lap does a lot more than just the backs of cabs.  They will do complete cabs as long as there are no concave sides or internal shapes like a cross or heart. The technique is different from using a wheel machine but just needs to be learned. I prefer using the flat lap to using the wheel machine but both have their place. Both the wife and I have successfully worked cabs with various rocks from agate to obsidian to turquoise on the Ameritool using just the diamond discs (180, 320, 600, 1200) and felt disc with 14,000 diamond paste that come with the Ameritool.

Third, for holding the cab for working with the Dremel, think about the super glue/wood screw system.  With the cab glued onto the screw, it is held in the dowel.  Instead of the dowel, screw it in to a small, square piece of wood and  clamp that in a small, portable vise that you clamp to your work table when needed. Just make sure the screw is tight in the wood. With that system, you could also hold the dowel in one hand while you manipulate the Dremel with the other.

Jerry

[TwoDog]

  Yeah we are full timers. :-)

[peruano]

If space and weight are issues, you might even think about a pixie cabbing machine.  The 4" wheels place some restrictions on the size of stones to be processed, but the water recirculation/pump is preadapted for portability and conservation.  I'd certainly use one if I carried it in the rv

[jerrysg]

TwoDog,

I would still go with my recommendation of the Ameritool flat lap as a starter unit, especially carrying it in the RV.

Let's compare the Ameritool 8" flat lap to the Diamond Pacific Pixie. 

The Pixie has 4" diameter x 1 1/4" wide wheels which are small and do limit the size of the cabs that you can work as peruano said.
The Ameritool has 8" diameter flat discs that will flat polish up to 3 1/2" geodes or thunder eggs as well as the front and back of large cabs.

The Pixie has a constant speed motor while the Ameritool has a variable speed DC motor plus, by working your stones at various distances from the center of the disc, you can adjust the speed of the abrasive across the stone. i.e. faster cutting out near the rim vs. slower cutting near the center.

Comparing costs new:

Ameritool = $659 with 180, 325, 600 and 1200 diamond discs and a felt pad with 14,000 grit diamond paste. (We have bought a number of additional discs of various grits [~$20 each]. They are grit bonded to steel and are placed on a rigid plate on the machine.)
                                 
DP Pixie = $1529 with 6 wheels: 80, 220, 280,600, 1200 and 3000

Adding the Ameritool trim saw (also variable speed) adds another $448 to the cost while the Pixie saw attachment adds $250.

Weight: 

Ameritool = 18 lbs
Pixie = under 30 lbs

Size:

The Ameritool has a 12" x 12" footprint.
The Pixie is mounted on a 14 1/2" x 18" laminated base board.

Water system:

Ameritool = 1 time flow through water. Always fresh water on the disc and stone.
Pixie = reuses water with spitter arrangement to wet the wheels. Should change water each time you move to a new wheel.

Jerry

PS. In your travels, if you plan on being in the Tucson area, please stop and visit. I would be more than happy to let you try out the Ameritool and the Loretone LU-6X that I just refubished. At a minimum you should consider being in the Tucson area for the gem shows Jan 27-Feb 11. Largest gem, mineral and fossil show in the world. Sometimes there are good deals on equipment.

[Steve Ramsdell]

If you are talking about flat lap to just do the back of cabs you can get a smaller disk wheel that can either fit on the end of an arbor (some fit inside the grinding wheel, on the side) or run separately on its own.  There is basically 2 ways to go.  Either you buy used and fix it up to do what you want, or you can buy new and buy the best machine for what you want to do (which will cost a lot).  But you will find over time that you will have both if you stay in this work.  You will have more than one grinding combination and probably several ways to polish.  Same with dopping as some stones are heat sensitive and others aren't.  So get the things you need to work on materials you have or materials you want to work with.  I started with a used 8" saw, which I still have.  But now I have 2, 4" 1, 6" 1, 8" 1, 10" and a 20" (that gathers dust).