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Author Topic: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?  (Read 682 times)

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Craigab

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What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« on: May 17, 2018, 04:51:21 PM »

I removed the plywood in my vice of the machine I’m restoring as it was rotten and wanted to replace with something that provides the best grip. How often do people have stones come loose?  Is softer wood ideal or neoprene sheets or something else?  Do people just wind the vice down until it’s right and shake the stone and see if it’s loose then call it good? The odd shapes of stones would lead me to believer it would only be touching in 2-3 points on the vice if a hard material like plywood is used.
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Slabbercabber

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 05:09:39 PM »

I must have tried at least two dozen different materials.  Virtually all of them have advantages and disadvantages.  The only things that did not work were polypropelene, UHMW and HDPE.  They were too slippery and resistant.  Nothing really stands out as best for all circumstances.
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Sapphireminer

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 11:33:27 PM »

Depending on the size of the stone for me most of the stone I cut I stick to a piece of 3x2 timber with roof and gutter silicone then leave for 4 days to dry then put the timber in the vice fits perfectly as nice flat sides I cut some big slabs like this never had a problem even thougn there is a tiny bit of flex inthe stone .I have also cut larger slabs at 2.5 mm thick with no trouble. My vice is lined with Masonite.
Dave
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Phishisgroovin

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2018, 01:53:14 AM »

alot of people use liquid nails or wood glue to stick it to a 2x4 chunk then clamp the wood in the vise.
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Sapphireminer

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 02:05:59 AM »

I tried liquid nails and found it started to melt when in contact with the rockhound oil and would release the stone.
Dave
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Craigab

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 04:05:04 AM »

I did not realize people glued the stone to wood and then placed that in the vice, do you let the diamond blade cut through the wood too, as you move the slab further out?
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peruano

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 05:49:55 AM »

Line your vice jaws with a hard wood (or a dense plywood), but not a soft wood because it will dent, and loosen on your rock.
You can glue a rock with a flat surface to a 2x2 or appropriate sized stub and clamp that in the vice.  You can saw the wood but properly positioned there is no need.  You are here to cut rocks. I use standard carpenter's glue to fasten the rock to the wooden stub. 
For clamping irregular rocks in the vice, use 2 or more wedges (once again use hardwood and cut fairly acutely for durability) to fill in and create additional grabbing surface.  I tighten the rock in the vice and then shove in a wedge and pound on the wedge with a small wrench and then tighten the vice a bit more.  Once you master the wedges you will only have a rock slip when you are trying something you know you shouldn't try.  Good luck and yes its always smart to tug on a rock that you think might not be secure. 
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Craigab

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 11:45:52 AM »

thanks will use plywood as I have some lying around.  I think I’m going to try mounting a 14” mk diamond 301 blade and start with that as I am getting wobble with the 18” 301 blade I have. I’ve tried remounting it many times and can’t get it not to wobble. Do people usually place a spacer between the arbor bearing and the closest saw blade flange?  I have two different flanges that are both giving me blade wobble and I’m starting to wonder if I need a spacer. My saw has a texturedd area that has the flange tighten against but im not sure if it’s not sitting off balanced because that’s the only thing I can think that could cause the wobble considering the blade is new and the flanges appear clean and flat.
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lapidaryrough

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 11:54:33 AM »

Back to the VISE, what too use fir tee. extend the wood over the metal back of vise both plates are same size. just hange them over the lift edge so  you have space for the flange on the blade.
LG grain  Fir is best. Highland-Park / Frantom. And all of my saws, use Fir LG grain broads.

  1/2 inch over lap is fine just so you clear the flange, and the base of  vise should be 1/4 inch above the flange.
 This to will save you -  Rock lathe cutting new flange. Many times i have reshape a flange.

    Always  keep rock above that plane of sight. on vise bed. 1/4 space to clear flange on blade.

   Back to your rebuild.

  Jack
 
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Sapphireminer

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2018, 01:53:58 PM »

When cutting a rock thatis glued to a block you set your clamp as far away from the blade as needed to get your first slice then wind the rock clamp in towards the blade to get the thickness you require for your next slab and repeat after each slice until you reach the block. I leave enough rock on the block to be used as another slab its quite easy to use a knife and cut through the silicone and remove the stone of the block when finished cutting. With mounting your new blade are you putting a flange on both sides off the blade.
Dave
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Craigab

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 02:19:20 PM »

Yes I am using flanges on both sides of the blade.  The side closest to the bearings just fits snuggled on a textured part of the arbor while other other flange is tightened against the blade and the inner flange using the nut. I am getting considerable wobble in the blade when on. I am thinking the inner flange is not 100% perpendicular causing the wobble. Am thinking of using a spacer between the bearing and inner flange to see if that helps. I’ve tried mounting the blade a dozen times with two different sets of flanges to no avail.
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Redrummd

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 08:34:59 PM »

Yes I am using flanges on both sides of the blade.  The side closest to the bearings just fits snuggled on a textured part of the arbor while other other flange is tightened against the blade and the inner flange using the nut. I am getting considerable wobble in the blade when on. I am thinking the inner flange is not 100% perpendicular causing the wobble. Am thinking of using a spacer between the bearing and inner flange to see if that helps. I’ve tried mounting the blade a dozen times with two different sets of flanges to no avail.

You may have a cupped blade that needs to be straightened.  Fairly easy to do once you have the right tools.

Sapphireminer

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 12:36:32 AM »

Have you checked your main drive shaft at the blade end you need to be pretty spot on it would not need to have much of a bend to wobble a 18 inch blade best of luck.
Dave
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Slabbercabber

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 05:52:25 AM »

I think it is time to find a dial indicator.  They can be had pretty cheap for a one time use.  You will want to check run out on the shaft with nothing mounted.  If this indicates a problem, it could be the shaft or it could be a bearing.  Put the indicator right next to each bearing on both sides to eliminate them at the cause.  Then Put both flanges on without a blade and check run out at the perimeter of the flange.  Finally install the blade and check at the edge of the flange.  If all these are true then the blade is at fault.
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Craigab

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Re: What is the best material to grip stones in vice?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2018, 04:07:32 PM »

I think it is time to find a dial indicator.  They can be had pretty cheap for a one time use.  You will want to check run out on the shaft with nothing mounted.  If this indicates a problem, it could be the shaft or it could be a bearing.  Put the indicator right next to each bearing on both sides to eliminate them at the cause.  Then Put both flanges on without a blade and check run out at the perimeter of the flange.  Finally install the blade and check at the edge of the flange.  If all these are true then the blade is at fault.

I bought a dial indicator with magnetic base. When you are checking the shaft, do you check it from above with the dial indicator perpendicular to the shaft?  I did notice if I don’t tighten the flange shaft bolt with a lot of force the blade does not wobble much at all and is probably good enough. I am wondering if tightening the blade bolt down causes uneven pressure on the flange that causes the blade to wobble. Will try the rest of the tests later tonight and report back.  The bearings are brand new from Timken which is a reputable made in USA brand and they fit very snug in the shaft holder so I can’t imagine it is them but will check. I have a second new saw blade coming (303c) and will check that out when it comes tomorrow to see if that resolves the matter as well.
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