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Author Topic: Charoite or something else?  (Read 4653 times)

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Enchantra

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Charoite or something else?
« on: March 06, 2019, 04:31:18 PM »

I bought this on Ebay listed as Charoite.  I'm almost certain that it's not Charoite because it looks nothing like my other cabs of Charoite.  I paid only $7 for it, so it was cheap. 
Some have thought Sugilite.  It was also suggested it could be a dyed material - which I'm not ruling out.

But again, I'm not sure. :icon_scratch:

hummingbirdstones

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 07:11:12 PM »

Doesn't look like Charoite to me at all.  No chatoyancy, the color is wrong.  Doesn't really look like Sugilite to me, either.  Dunno, Amanda.  $7 is too cheap for either of those.
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Robin

Enchantra

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 09:07:55 PM »

Doesn't look like Charoite to me at all.  No chatoyancy, the color is wrong.  Doesn't really look like Sugilite to me, either.  Dunno, Amanda.  $7 is too cheap for either of those.

I agree $7 is to cheap for either stone.  Foreign seller shipping out of New Jersey.  I have already seen other stones on their site that I know are labeled wrong.  Some of it is expensive stone too and it's going for cheaper than dirt.  I really have the impression that they have no idea what they have, possibly just buying in wholesale lots from China or India and then reselling them online.  I'm sure they wouldn't be the first person to do that.

irockhound

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 11:32:54 PM »

It looks like the lower grade of charoite to me the material that doesn't show much fiber.  The reasons also are the black Augite and the greenish tinkasite  crystals both I find in Charoite.  Sugilite although is has some you could call black they are not deep blacks like Augite.  Remember that the booths in Quartzsite and I assume also Tucson were selling cut Charoite cabs for 5 and 10 dollars and these had more chatoyant fiber in them.
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Slabbercabber

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 04:09:12 AM »

I'm thinking low quality dumortierite.
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rocky

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 07:35:25 AM »

It's charoite.
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finegemdesigns

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 02:09:50 PM »

If there is such a thing as no chatoyant charoite I would guess this as well.

It's becoming more and more difficult to compete as far as cutting with these sweat shops in 3rd world countries. The only way to compete now is NOT on cutting but on the MATERIALS. Most final consumers are not aware of (or don't care enough about) the polish or symmetry of their colored gemstones.

I mean seriously 5-8 bucks for a Sonora Sunrise cab? If you are living in the USA there is no way you are making a living and paying the bills on these low margins of profit.
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55fossil

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 04:53:57 PM »

*** Finegemdesigns;   I agree, mostly with your thoughts on competing with cheap cabs on the market.

   I choose not to compete but try to beat them on quality in every way. I even buy some of these poorly cut cabochons and recut them with a first class polish. Quite often these cheap cabochons have flat spots and scratches even though they may be top rate material. I still sell some 20 and 30 dollar cabs but most my clients want stuff that is over $50 per cabochon, bless them for being choosey. Whether it is on my Etsy shop or my web site, the more expensive pieces sell faster when they are truly a unique or high quality specimen. That is not to say you cannot get lucky and find a good cabochon cheap.... 
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Michael

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 11:10:25 AM »

i agree with the last few comments about the "cheap stones."  I also saw some poor Sonora Sunrise cabs for $5.00 at both Quartzite and Tuscon this year.  The stones lacked the properties of good color and had inclusions or other defects.  Some of these vendors were also selling dyed or heat treated material.  I also noticed that there were not a lot of customers milling about  these booths as well, that is compared to the higher quality vendors. These sweat shop vendors have been a recent occurrence over the last three or four years.  People who come to T and Q are usually knowledgeable about stone quality and will continue to reasonably pay for unique specimens or cab material, I believe.  Some hobbyists buy the poor quality for personal use or to sell at Church Bazaars and Fairs, etc.  Yet after all the work and expense of metal smithing, wire wrapping, etc. why would you use an inferior center piece for your work?     I have plenty of good quality rough that I have slowly collected over the years.  I get great satisfaction out of the qualities of the stone, and how I can add by shaping and polishing, vs buying a whole bunch of crud mud at cheap prices.  I do try to get the best possible price for the quality of the stone, of course, but I am not going to spend my time on junk.  I don't even tumble this gravel. 

As a side note,  At Q this year, I heard some vendors grumbling about customers trying to reduce prices on good quality stone, saying if they want that price, then they should go get a pick, hammer and shovel and try to find some on their own.  I agree. 
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Enchantra

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 05:35:06 PM »

At T and Q I bought a lot of good quality cabs from various vendors and I also hit the guy with the cheap cabs as well.  I spent quite a bit on cabs.  Certain stones I will only buy from folks who cut the cabs themselves.  I dropped a solid $200 at T from a lady selling boulder opal cabs from her mine, dropped another $200 on Pietersite cabs at the Pueblo show. 

The stone above I bought because I liked the color - not because of what the seller said the stone was.  And I'm actually a touch shocked at how good this stone looks in hand.  Even polish, no rough or flat spots.  Pretty difficult to get that out of a mass importer.

55fossil

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 05:39:22 PM »

   $7 is a great price for that cabochon, period.  Did that include shipping? There are price point markets in every industry. Last I checked there is not a $250,000 Porsche in my driveway. One of the neighbors has a $15,000 used Porsche that looks pretty nice. Same scenario with cabochons. People just need to consider and hopefully remember there is a difference between a top gem Chrysocola and a pitted piece of bluish rock that someone says is Chrysocola.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if you like it, that is important.  Enjoy your $7 stone.
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hummingbirdstones

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 06:00:04 AM »

If you like it, that is all that matters Amanda.  I actually like the looks of it from the picture.  It's a big stone, too.  Anything is possible when you buy stones from an importer.  When I said cheap in my first comment, I was just talking about price because there is no way anyone in this country and buy, cut and sell either Charoite or Sugilite and sell it for that price without losing a lot of money.

I would love to see those high dollar cabs you bought.  Can you post pics?  I didn't get to Q this year again.   :sad10:
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Robin

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2019, 09:52:36 AM »

I agree that the Charoite above is an attractive stone for its price.  Price can be deceptive.  Last year at T, I purchased a piece of blue chalcedony rough that had varying degrees of translucency and transparency.  The stone also had a thick matrix, inclusions and vugs all over the surface, so the vendor gave it to me for $8.00.  When I cut the stone I was able to salvage a good percentage of it and got two really nice bead cabs.  When I look for stone, I look for unique properties such as patterns, colors, and see what I can do with it.  I buy mostly rough and not finished cabs.  I also purchased two pieces of Canadian Ammonite rough and Koroit Boulder opal. Pricey?  You betcha!  I had never worked these type stones, and they intrigued my interest.  This is what I like about this endeavor.  Searching for stone that I feel has potential.  Disappointments at times, but who hasn't?  I was able to get two really beautiful fire agates and two that were absolute duds after I began the shaping and polishing process.  Just the way it goes, I have found.  I have never worked pink opal, so I purchased some rough, but the matrix surrounding the stone is like an armadillo.  The challenges of all these stones to convert them into something as attractive as they possibly can be is the great fun of it, in my own opinion.  I think if I had to produce those five dollar production stones to make a living, I would give it up.  Such drudgery!!!
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irockhound

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2019, 11:16:02 AM »

Just my 2 cents worth.  I love cutting cabs and take great pride in cutting quality cabs as anyone who has been to my website can see.  I don't sell my material and more often give it away so I don't have to compete with low cost cutters or inferior stones.  The last 2 years at Quartzsite though I was taken back by a couple of the cab vendors who had very nice material for extremely low prices.  Now in context if you look through the trays there IS a lot of crap and bad stones and mixed in there are some real keepers with nothing wrong in the stones.  If I did sell would I ever produce a $2, $5 or $10 stone - not likely.  I like the material and value my work and finish too much to degrade it to those prices.  That does not degrade that some of these stones are more than worth the price just for the patterns and colors or just being cheaper than you could buy rough for.  I noticed a new post about tumbling stones from 220 up and to me there is nothing personal in that or skill other than knowing and having good skill at running a tumbler but that doesn't mean some of the stones aren't pretty or if the price was right worth it.  You just have to disclose that you didn't do the work just like if I were to rough a cab and give it to another cabber to finish from 220 up - would I take credit for the cab?  I spent probably 4 hours going through the cabs at Quartzsite at the vendor to get cabs that could be recut or finished.  In the 2 dollar range cabs they are just for accent stones and nothing has to be done but for 2 it makes it appealing.  The Malachite cabs were well cut and probably tumbled but I was picking for pattern and they were great.  The Mexican cabs I picked all has intense shadow (parallax effect) and not having to cut hundreds of stones to get a nice one for $5 - well that was worth it.  Anyway I am including 2 pics of the cabs I picked up.  One tray is all $5 stones and the other i marked lines around the different priced stones.  I can look back and still think they were a great deal.   I will add that while I was at the booth other vendors were having a conversation with him because he was too cheap and hurting other peoples sales and they wanted him to increase his prices.  The following day at the Desert gardens at one of their booths the prices all doubled from the prior day so I walked away since then it wasn't worth it to me and he came after me and told me he would give the previous day prices.  For scale those are std trays and in the vertical pic is a Quarter for scale - hard to make out with the reflection.
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vitzitziltecpatl

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Re: Charoite or something else?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2019, 01:31:04 PM »

Looks like Charoite to me.

The only commercial lapidary around here vibes all his cabs after the pre-polish. Even if the rough was free I'd have a hard time with putting a $5 price on a nice stone.

If it was some kind of unattractive crap only worth $5 I wouldn't be cutting it to begin with.
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