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Author Topic: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions  (Read 333 times)

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robirdman

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Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« on: April 07, 2019, 07:51:37 AM »

After a 2010 attic, fire where fire hose water reached the basement, all my salvaged stuff was moved to a restoration center for a year.  When I got the 3 hopper minisonic back, #1 hopper worked fine, #2 was intermittent and #3 wasn't working.  I drilled out all the rivets to see what was going on.  The wiring was complicated looking and I couldn't find a local electrician who was interested in looking, let alone rewiring. I Called Diamond Pacific and talked to Don who appeared helpful and friendly and said I could send the unit for repair.  Meanwhile I bypassed the switch on #3 to test with wires going directly to a plugged in outlet.  Here too the vibration was powerful.  I decided to make a trip to CA and drop this off as part of it.  Don said he would be back from a trip on April 16, so I delayed my time in CO to be there on that date, expecting it to be looked at and estimated to replace the wiring.  But he wasn't there so I had to leave it.  On April 20, I got a call that it had to have other parts replaced.  I said I only wanted it rewired but that wouldn't guarantee that it would work. I finally agreed to have about $340 worth of work done to restore it.  But after that was OK'd, I was called days later saying that there wasn't enough power to move a load and the coils would have to be replaced and it would now cost like buying a new one.  I decided to just cancel any further work and return it as it was when I brought it in.  Next time I was in the area, I went to pick it up and I was shown how switches, and other things had been replaced, and though it didn't work, I needed to pay about $340 of I couldn't have it back.  I protested that this was extortion and I should notify the CA Attorney General and Don didn't care.  After a bitter exchange back and forth, I paid $100 just to get it back and see if it would work when I returned to Chicago, months later.  It didn't, so I went from having a machine that had partial functionality that I wanted wiring replaced on to one that won't tumble anything at all in any hopper, for $100.  Fair?
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Slabbercabber

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2019, 09:24:27 AM »

If you paid by credit card, call the card company and see if they will do anything.  If you paid cash, sorry.  That is bad business model.  In most states a repair quote is a contract.  The shop cannot increase the amount after it is approved.  If California has that law, you can contact the state.
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irockhound

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 10:21:11 AM »

The thing here is the slippery slope.  I think a good analogy would be an engine repair.  You bring in a car and it is obvious that the engine isn't getting fuel and there is a broken belt so you pay for the repairs.  The mechanic fixes those items and then tries to start the car and finds that a piston is frozen in the engine.  Should the mechanic eat the cost to repair the belt and fuel issue because now the piston repair would cost too much.
If you okayed having work done and that work was completed and then it is found that additional work is needed and the customer then doesn't want to go to that step does that mean that the workman who did the work should eat the original repair cost?  I don't think that is fair either but it doesn't make it any easier for the person who wanted the repair work done.  I don't think I have ever seen a guarantee that "if you do this repair and it doesn't all the problems it won't cost you a thing".
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Slabbercabber

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2019, 01:04:43 PM »

If a repair order spells out what is to be done then that is what you must pay for.  If you write the repair order as get engine running then the shop is on the hook to diagnose the problem correctly and charge accordingly.  If they make an improper diagnosis and repair the wrong thing it is then on them.  The law is written to curb unscrupulous shops from doing exactly what occurred here.
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irockhound

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 12:31:18 AM »

You've seen the repair order?  I haven't so I am in the dark.  I am not saying that my example is what occurred I was just using it as a common thing that happens.  Shops are normally very careful not to put themselves on the hook by using language that is specific.  "Repair part A" does that mean make it run or if 2 things are fixed on it and it still doesn't run - well it was repaired, the line would have to say "Repair part A to running condition".  Something as simple as that can lead to problems on both sides.  Remember our past President "I did not have sex with that woman" and "it all depends on what your definition of is is"  Those are classic lines he said as he dodged the real issue by using semantics.   I have never had Diamond Pacific do any repairs so I cannot speak for their service.

I for one have been screwed big time because of unscrupulous people, right now on the hook for 180k of work before the county will let me remodel the house I bought because the sellers didn't disclose 80% of buildings on property were un-permitted and a covenant that restricts building.  I don't have much recourse other than suing them and even then I wouldn't be whole.
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catmandewe

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2019, 08:03:37 AM »

Let me get this straight.
So DP only charged you $100 for $340 worth of work, told you what needed to be fixed and you declined to have it fixed. This is after you waited 8 years to fix something that was damaged in a fire that you probably collected insurance on, and a year (or more) later you are blaming them for not fixing your machine for free?

Sounds like a hidden agenda here to me.

I have sent lots of stuff into DP to get fixed, they have always been fair and helpful. Bashing a reputable company a year or more after the fact (not sure which year you are talking about but since it is only April 10 today it was not this year) doesnt really make sense to me.

Sorry your machine doesnt work but blaming others wont make it any better either.

Tony
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ileney

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 12:56:07 PM »

I am not touching this discussion with a ten foot pole except to say that I too have a vibratory sonic  tumbler where only barrel one works and I’m super puzzled. All three seem to be vibrating but when you open the lids, the rocks are only circulating in the number one spot. And if you move the tumblers from the two or three spots to one, they will tumble but the one that was tumbling before but got moved to the #2 or # 3 spot now is not. So it has nothing to do with the amount of stones, water or grit. It’s the mechanism at issue. Yet I really don’t see what’s gone wrong. I’m also dumbfounded that you can need as much work done on a vibratory tumbler as a car in terms of cost because to my untrained, unmechanicalky inclined eyes, this looks like a pretty simple mechanism.
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robirdman

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 08:39:08 PM »

To clarify: I was going on a trip for 3 months, leaving April 5.  After talking on the phone, I made a decision to make part of the trip taking the Minisonic in person and expecting an estimate while I was present.  I delayed my travels in Colorado to arrive in Barstow on the day Don was scheduled to return. But then he wasn't there and I had to leave it.  From the beginning, since I had tested the hoppers, and one worked fine, #2 was intermittent as its wire was pressed or jiggled, and #3 did not work with the switch, but did if it was bypassed with a direct connection.  All I had wanted was to have the wiring replaced.  When I received a return call days later, I was told I needed new switches, etc.  I said I would just like the wiring replaced and couldn't that alone be done.  I was told no, all this other stuff was necessary if I wanted it working again.  I reluctantly agreed, because otherwise I had brought it all this way for nothing.  Then after more time delaying my itinerary by remaining in southern CA, I was told that sorry, but that didn't work, and it might be best to buy a new one, as now it would cost as much to replace more parts.  I said, then just return it as I brought it in.  But when I had thought that was going to be the case and went to pick it, is when I was shown that it was in the new, but non-workable state.  The switch system was a different mechanism from the original, and I suppose that maybe the newer system wasn't powerful enough for the old coils, which all had very string power previously.  It seems to me that if there was any uncertainty that the changes could have been made on one hopper, like the 3rd instead of doing all 3 and saying, that unfortunately there isn't enough power to move the load.  I had hovered around southern CA for weeks waiting for the analysis, go ahead, work done and then expecting it undone and given a date and finding that I was given an ultimatum.  I continued on the rest of my trip, through, CA, OR, WA, then east to WY, WI and returning at the end of June.  I didn't even unload the box with the machine for several months later from the compartment under the false floor in my truck for months, as I adjusted to more pressing adjustments. Then I hoped that maybe it would work, but they would just vibrate weakly and not move the load.  All I had wanted was to replace the original wiring, and was told that would not be done.  I agreed to what I was told was necessary for functionality and got something back that had less than before.  As I recently began again to work on other dormant lapidary equipment, I was reminded of this incident.  I also have the large Vibrasonic tumbler, and accidentally broke the switch off.  I got a duplicate switch at Grainger's and then found that I had to get new terminals as well and replace.  Did so, put it back together and tried a test load and it moves as it should.  I also rehabilitated my Frantom combo unit, a diamond band saw, a Lortone tumbler, and some other things. and am currently trying to get my Nelson 24" saw running again where the problem is again related to wiring, to the switch box and power button box, which is likewise a little complex to me, but bypassing the switch and connecting directly to the motor shows that the saw will run,  The date is close the anniversary of my leaving on the trip, that brings it all back to me, and how I felt totally misled.
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irockhound

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 12:42:08 AM »

I didn't want to come across that you are wrong Or that they might be at fault either.  I just wanted to point out that things like this are complicated from both sides.  In re-reading my text I think I may have made the case for the misunderstanding without stating the other side of it (ie yours).  But in your case if the agreement was that the unit was to be "restored" and that would mean running then you have your case there.  Like I said I can't see the work order or hear the other side of it.  What I was writing in regards to was that there was a stated level of work and it was agreed to and then it became more expensive and then stopped.  That was the reason for the specific analogy I used.  Because when shops take on work like the engine example would it be right for the mechanic to have to pay the additional cost of the Piston?  And that is why shops leave themselves an out in the wording.  I want to make sure I didn't step over any line since it was not my intent
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robirdman

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 05:02:06 PM »

While searching for this post, I discovered I had posted earlier about the status of the Minisonic, asking if there was anyone local who might be able to rewire it.  Post L 108.200.85.169. This was in February, 2018, before I took to Diamond Pacific. In between, I connected the 3rd oscillator directly to an outlet, finidng very strong vibration. Taking to CA seemed to be my only option to get rewired, which was then refused.
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Trails

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Re: Minisonic tumbler no longer functions
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2019, 01:37:59 PM »

Its gray water territory on either side. Ive learned from the past of being a mechanic, to specifically list what you're going to do and quote strictly to that. If something else comes up along the way, its a phone call for approval and for safety measures, further in writing of what is to be done with its quote and continue on down the line. This is very true with old Volkswagens, as the moment you put a new part on an old motor, everything around that new part will give out within the following months. Much like only replacing the chain on a bike that's been ridden for 20 years.

In a lot of wiring situations, simply replacing the wires is a half-ass job. No offense, but generally, aside from a short in the wire, the wire isn't just the problem. Everytime I rewire a motor I put in new switches and capacitor if needed, bushings.. anything that I question with a hint of heat scale or boil in the lining. I wanna make sure when I flip the switch, it does what its supposed to do without sparks and without tearing the darn thing apart again. My wife used to be a QC for military equipment, so even after I toss it over to her to overlook.

Just from working on single ultrasonics, the circuit is simple, but at the same time too much of a pain in the butt not to just want to replace half the unit in a quarter of time that it takes to just rerun a wire.

Sorry as this doesnt give any resolution to the issue, I just wanted to put forth my opinion when it comes to electrical work. As simple as certain things seem, its amazing what one small little tarnished contact plate can cause in the line of migraines, specially when its only a 2$ part. There's a little place in my heart for old appliance repair and organ repairmen, in what was once a glorious trade.
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Tay
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